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mamaluk
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Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Blake,

As I recall from a thread a couple of months ago, you expressed to Ron and I that you do not believe the Bible is the Word of God, that the Bible only contains some of the words of God.

Is this still your belief, or the premise you hold your views from?



 2006/12/6 19:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The term "begotten" in the Greek of John 1:14 indicates Jesus as the sole representive of the Being and Character of God. It does not imply the beginning of Sonship. The "begetting" in John 3:16 is irrespective of time (the "only begotten" Son of God), showing that Jesus did not become, but has always been, eternally, the Son of God in relationship. In John 1:18 "The only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father" expresses both his eternal union with the Father and the inexpressible intimacy of loving union they both share.



Hi Paul,

Thanks for the explanation. I not sure it fits with the scriptures you posted though. John 1:14 says Jesus is the only begotten of the FATHER not the only begotten of God. I think this makes a difference because the term God implies all of God which would include the Holy Spirit and Jesus as well. John 3:16 does not mention anything about time...about Christ being the Son from all Eternity. It calls Him the "only begotten". That does not imply anywhere that it means from all eternity.

Quote:
That God would send His Eternal Son to this trashcan of rebels, forsake His dearly beloved, and bruise Him for guilty worms of dust...oh, what inexpressible bliss for men to comprehend! I put my hand to my mouth and bow my worm head to the dirt from where I was formed and confess I know nothing as I ought



If God is a Trinity in the biblical sense that God is one being yet three persons then God could not forsake Himself....because without one part or person of God you do not have God. It goes back to my first question I posted which no one has answered yet. I too, of course, do believe there are many thing about God that are beyond our comprehension but I do not think understanding "God as He is..His nature/Godhead/Deity" is one of them.

I certainly don't think one of the major, considered even by some as essential, doctrines of Christianity should be considered a mystery that cannot be explained.

 2006/12/6 22:44
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Especially how you keep maintaining that Jesus was a "spirit"



When a person is born again, they are born of the Spirit. Previously, the person was merely flesh. Afterward, the person is born as a spirit. That is why Christ was recorded as saying in John 3:6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Quite obviously, there are people walking the earth at this moment who have experienced this rebirth. They exist in both flesh and spirit. They have been born in water which is the flesh, and in spirit which is of the Spirit.

Jesus Christ, at His birth, was born in water and spirit. This is what I mean by saying Christ was a spirit. He was born in the flesh which means He could bleed and die, but also in the Spirit which means He could perform miracles.

Quote:
here is no distinction to you (at least this was how I perceived it) between the offices of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.



I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean by the word "office"? What exactly are you saying by this?

In love,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/12/6 23:10Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Well, sscot, I thank you for the discussion. I encourage you to study the Greek for yourself. The notes I posted were directly from the New and Expanded Strong's Red-Letter Concordance (this is the good thing about posting from solid, reliable sources - no ill feelings on my part when someone disagrees).

I pray the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth, and I remain,

your friend in Christian love.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/6 23:16Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean by the word "office"? What exactly are you saying by this?



Office, meaning "role" if you will - for example, Father-Creator, Son-Redeemer, Spirit-Mentor, etc. each Person of the Triune Godhead having a certain and unique application.

Sorry for the confusion!

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/6 23:22Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Krispy,

I wrote this by guidance of the Holy Spirit in accord with God's Will. It took me nearly 8 hours Wednesday to complete.

Quote:
I believe Blake has a JW back ground, which would explain why he is still struggling with this.



I am not struggling with this. I struggled with it for a time because there was so many contradictions among people in the Church. So, I spent time praying and consulting Christ. What I have presented is the answer given to me.

This is quite contrary to the Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe Jesus is the angel Michael. They believe the greatest deception created by the Devil is that Jesus is God. In fact, Jesus is merely a secondary figure in comparison to Jehovah God, the Father. They worship Jehovah believing the Father is supreme. They believe Jesus is the only way to the Father, but he is like a telephone line. He is merely the connection.

This is far from the truth. Jesus Christ is not merely the connection to God. It is Christ in whom we give all our worship, honor, praise, love, devotion, and prayers. For anyone who says differently, I can testify personally to the truth. I spent 26 years of my life believing Jesus was the Son of God and the way to the Father. I prayed to the Father every night. It was not until I prayed to Jesus that my prayers were answered and I was saved.

Quote:
If you dont reveal the source, then I have to wonder what you're hiding.



Krispy, I have nothing to hide. I am merely a servant. I obey the command of my Lord.

I have not studied philosophy or theology at any university or school. I am not a well-known writer or anything of the such. I am a nobody. A little over three years ago, Christ changed my life drastically. In those three years, I have been taught and trained by no one other than Christ.

I have learned the hard way that I cannot and should not defend myself or respond in haste. If anyone chooses to question what I say, it is not my responsibility to prove or defend. God has called me to one thing: complete and total obedience. I speak when He tells me to speak, and wait on Him in all things.

Because of this, I often remain silent. If what I have offered is truly from God, then He will uphold it by His authority. If it is from me, then it will fade and become dust.

My brother, I do appreciate your eagerness to hold people accountable. If more had done this in times past, the Church would not be so far from Christ as it is now. However, I also suggest that in such instances you pray first. If God has gifted you with holding others accountable, you would be a fool to do so without His bidding.

May Christ be yours,
In love,

Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/12/6 23:32Profile
beenblake
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Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Yes, this would certainly explain the Arian concept of Christ being a created "spirit" and coming to earth.



Dear Paul,

Please reread the above post. It says, "The Son was not created." In addition, it quotes Proverbs 8:22-31 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. From everlasting I was established..."

Thank you,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/12/6 23:46Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Office, meaning "role" if you will - for example, Father-Creator, Son-Redeemer, Spirit-Mentor, etc. each Person of the Triune Godhead having a certain and unique application.



If it is true that "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father," as stated in Luke 10:22, then how could they each possess a different role? Would not all roles have been given to Christ?

In addition, what are we to say of this scripture where Paul speaks of Christ...

Colossians 1:16 (NAS)
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

In love,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/12/7 0:00Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
The danger of solely describing this relationship as Father and Son is that false doctrines such as the trinity arise. When we describe God and His Word as Father and Son, we are tempted to say they are two persons. We think of a Father as one person, and the Son as another person. This is entirely false. They are not two persons, but one person. God is one.



This is the ancient heresy of Sabellianism.

Quote:
God the Father brought forth a Son



And this is Arianism - the heresy that Jesus was created by God and had a beginning.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/7 0:03Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
If it is true that "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father," as stated in Luke 10:22, then how could they each possess a different role?



Well, if you wrestle out this one scripture and ignore all the hundreds of others, it certainly helps fit your belief! JW's are infamous for this. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, praying. The Holy Spirit is reproving the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. Only the Father knows the day and hour (not the Son); though God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit are Three Separate Persons with different applications, all Three are One. This is evident all throughout scripture, and, admittedly, is a divine mystery. The error of Sabellianism and other cultic mindsets evolve from an effort to rationalize the mysterious union of the Triune Godhead into a box of human logic. But it can't be done! We know only in part. Great is the mystery.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/7 0:13Profile





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