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 Trinity Questions

Ok..before I ask my questions I want to make sure everyone puts down their stones. I know that to even questions this doctrine will sometimes cause people to automatically label you a heretic. So I hope I can post my questions regarding scriptures I don't understand and get some genuine answers.


I have been taught and believed the Trinity since my conversion 8 years ago. Before I became a Christian I didn't really have an understanding of how God's nature worked. Being a newborn babe in Christ I began to read God's word and see confusing passages about who God was. So naturally I turned to the people I knew who loved God and asked them about God's nature. They explained to me that God is a Trinity. Of course I believed it..tried to wrap my mind around it and could to some extent. There were and are many verses that would point to God being a trinity but then there are others that do not seem to fit into the Trinity box. I just excused them and assumed they would make sense later when I knew more.

Lately I have had the opportunity to witness to Muslims, JW's, Mormons, people who believe we should be keeping ALL the old testament law ect. I would find myself describing the nature of God and inwardly I was questioning some of what I was saying. There are verses and concepts that I do not know how to work into the Trinity doctrine and thought I would post them here to get your responses.

Here we go:

1. God is a Trinity..without one member of the Trinity you do not have God...because God is one..inseperable....One being..three persons. So when Jesus cries out "My God My God why have you forsaken me"....how is it possible that God forsook God? Wouldn't it be impossible? I have heard people say that the Father was forsaking the humanity of Jesus but that's non sense. If that was the case the God did not really forsake Jesus.

2. If Jesus was 100% God and 100% man how could He sin? God cannot be tempted to sin. Jesus had to have the possibility of sinning or else he could not be a faithful High Priest able to sympathize with our weakness. Matt Slick from the website www.carm.org says:

Quote:

Therefore, I conclude that Jesus could not have sinned, but that He could be tempted; that is, He could have a sinful option presented to Him -- as was presented to God in the wilderness -- yet Jesus would not have sinned.




If Jesus was 100% God but with human flesh on then He could not sin right? If it was impossible for Him to sin how can He be a faithful High Priest. If He did sin since the Godhead is one being...interconnected...what would have happened to God?

3. There are many instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I. I always thought this was in reference to Jesus being a Man on earth. But you also have accounts of Jesus calling the Father His God after the resurection. He calls the Father His God when speaking to Thomas and again in Revelations. (Rev 3:12) Why is Jesus still calling the Father His God? There is also a passage that says the head of Jesus is God. (1 Cor 11:3)

4. In John 5:26 Jesus says:
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,

Why does Jesus...the Son...need to have life within Himself granted to Him by the Father?

5. John 6:58 says:
57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

So..we live because of Jesus and Jesus lives because of the Father. So without Jesus we don't live and without the Father Jesus does not live?

These are just a few questions. I hope this turns into a good discussion. Please don't go and quote John 1:1 or some other verse to prove the Trinity. I know there are many. I am looking for explanations to verses that I don't understand how they fit into the Trinity Doctrine. I don't like the idea of just telling people "it's a mystery but you have to believe it".

Thanks,

sean

 2006/12/6 0:45
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Trinity Questions

Hi sscot,

I am going through similar study right now.
I can see your questions are more about the deity of Jesus, than the trinity itself.
I don't have all the asnwers that you are asking, but I can humbly suggest you some solid food for meditation, that I came through:

[url=http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/trinity/files/trinity.html]An Unpublished Essay on the Trinity[/url] by Jonathan Edwards
[url=http://www.ccel.org/ccel/owen/trinity.v.html]The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity Explained and Vindicated[/url] by John Owen
[url=http://www.heavendwellers.com/hdt_chapter_4_koh.htm]The Holy Trinity[/url] by A.W.Tozer

I read somewhere, and I think it is good thing to have in our minds:
[b]"If you try to explain the trinity you will lost your mind, but if you deny it you will lost your soul"[/b]

Quote:
So..we live because of Jesus and Jesus lives because of the Father. So without Jesus we don't live and without the Father Jesus does not live?



More I read Gospel Of John more I can see the greatness and the mistery of this holy relation - The Son of God and the Father. But not a mistery that throws me in confusion, but the one that gives me peace and freedom.

You said:
Quote:
I don't like the idea of just telling people "it's a mystery but you have to believe it"


I can understand what are talking about, but in the end, after all discussions will be ended, this still will be mistery for our limited minds by reasoning, but not mistery for the spirit if Jesus has opened our spiritual hearts about Him.

Talking with Muslims, JW's, Mormons and non-believers, I think we cannot explain them the spiritual things, they can understand this only if the Spirit reveals to them, and Christ open their spiritual eyes, otherwise they are blind spiritually. Paul says:

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now [b]we have received,[/b] not the spirit of the world, [b]but the spirit which is of God;[/b] that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, [b]not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [/b]
1Co 2:14 But [b]the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:[/b] for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, [b]because they are spiritually discerned.[/b]
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Only Christ through faith can open our hearts to know Him who He is truly:

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and [b]slow of heart to believe[/b] all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, [b]he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.[/b]
Luk 24:31 [b]And their eyes were opened, and they knew him;[/b] and he vanished out of their sight.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this [b]mystery among the Gentiles;[/b] [u]which is Christ in you,[/u] the hope of glory:

I am blessed reading the Gospel of John recently.

Forgive me for not answering directly your questions, But I will also wait someone else to contribute here, and this to be fruitful discussion and for the benefit of the Body.

God bless you,
Kire

 2006/12/6 2:28Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re: Trinity Questions

Brother Sean,

Be patient and feed on the word of God. Find Jesus in the OT.

Prov. 9:10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

The Holy One, who served as Priest of the Most High God according to the order of Melchizedeck has ministered before the foundation of this world. Before Adam was created, the Holy One reigned over creation. The Seed of the woman is salvation.

When you find the Holy One in the OT you will begin to see the Trinity as Scripture reveals Him. And knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/12/6 6:16Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re: Trinity Questions

A little food for thought.

Hebrews 1v8-9, 'But to the Son He says "Your throne O God, is forever and ever, a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom".

vs9 "You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You, with the oil of gladness more than Your companions".

Here, God is calling Jesus God, one and the same.

Also consider, God is Spirit, John 4v24. Jesus was flesh and blood, God in the flesh.

At Jesus' baptism, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were present. The Father's voice, Jesus Himself, and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. Three, yet one.

No doubt, there is more thought and input for this subject. That's it for me.

God bless.

 2006/12/6 7:13Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: Trinity Questions

The Trinity is a false and man-made doctrine.

In the name of Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/12/6 9:12Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Trinity Questions

There has been much discussion on this previously. Here's a few of the threads that you may find helpful in this matter...

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=7893&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Godhead[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1462&forum=23&post_id=&refresh=Go]Attributes of God-Tozer[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=7805&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Trinity debate[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12831&forum=35#99386]Unity of the Trinity[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1783&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Should we believe the Trinity[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12039&forum=34#93448]That they may be One[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=6505&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]History of the Trinity[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=5951&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Trinity[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2006/12/6 9:15Profile









 Re:

Hi Tears_of_Joy,

Thanks for your post. I would say I totally disagree witht this statement:

Quote:
I read somewhere, and I think it is good thing to have in our minds:
"If you try to explain the trinity you will lost your mind, but if you deny it you will lost your soul"



When I was born again I did not understand the Godhead and it was not a prerequiste to my salvation. That statment almost sounds like a scare tactic to get people to believe something they cannot explain.


Rookie and Enid,


I know there are many scriptures that seem to point to God being a Trinity. I don't have questions about those. I'm trying to get understand and explinations for the ones I don't understand.

Quote:
The Trinity is a false and man-made doctrine.

In the name of Christ,
Blake



So Blake..how do you understand God?


InTheLight,

Thanks...I'll check those links out. Do you have any answers for my questions?

 2006/12/6 9:54









 Re:

Quote:
The Trinity is a false and man-made doctrine.



How do you explain this?

[b]1 John 5:7[/b] [i]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: [b]and these three are one[/b].[/i] (KJV)

Oh, wait Blake... I forgot... your NIV doesnt have that verse in it. No wonder you're off base on this doctrine! :-)

Well... what about this one?

[b]Mat 1:23[/b] [i]Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, [b]God with us[/b].[/i]

Surprisingly, that one [b]is[/b] in your Bible. Here it is calling Jesus God... so either there is only One True God, as taught in the Old Testament... or the OT was wrong, and there are multiple Gods. It's either one or the other. Take your pick.

Krispy

 2006/12/6 10:55









 Re: Trinity Questions

Anyone?

 2006/12/6 14:04









 Re:

Scott... do you have a more direct question? I've read your post several times and I'm not sure what it is you're asking...

Krispy

 2006/12/6 14:15





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