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hisremnant
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Joined: 2006/2/2
Posts: 55
North Central Indiana

 Re:

Praise Jesus!! Lion of Judah!!!

After reading this thread. My question to most on here is this. Is the only spiritual gift in question the gift of tongues?

i am well aware of denominations that treat all (miraculous gifts as foundational) and not for today.

This is the heresy that i would confront. Not a defense of tongues only. i have observed much twisting of scripture to make various points. The purpose of ALL SCRIPTURE (which is God breathed)

2ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Thus its purpose is to teach us and bring us into ALL truth. Yet i see many here who use it to win an argument and to prove a preconcieved opinion. They read the scripture with their minds allready made-up. They hunt for verses (usually out of context) to prove the position they held before hand. Scripture must be read in context and with the full illumination of the Holy Ghost.

In context means in light of the WHOLE BIBLE not just the parts i choose to win my point.

i have seen here many people who are striving to show that God is on their side. God is not on my side (or your side) we must be on Gods side. Gods position on matters does not change. Ii is man who strives to change Gods position.

Mal 3:6 "For I am the Lord, I do not change;

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Thus for this Christian it is my understanding that God and the way HE does things has not changed. The way He deals with mankind and uses men HAS not changed. The bible is NOT a history book. It is a living breathing manual of instruction on how to SERVE God and contend with the kingdom of darkness. RIGHT NOW in the present, in this life.

He still gives some to be Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and teachers. And HE still equips them in the same way.

In closing i will give you this thought on the day of Pentecost. Some of those on seeing what had happened accused the Apostles of drunkeness.

Ac 2:13 Others mocking said, "They are full of new wine."

Today those with the same spirit would accuse them of witchcraft or false prophecy etc. i will caution those who do this to carefully consider what it is you do. Do not attribute a miraculous healing or deliverance etc. to Satan without much prayerful contemplation. Lest you blaspheme the Holy Ghost.

Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17

 2006/12/25 9:23Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

hisremnant wrote:
Yet i see many here who use it to win an argument and to prove a preconcieved opinion. They read the scripture with their minds allready made-up. They hunt for verses (usually out of context) to prove the position they held before hand. Scripture must be read in context and with the full illumination of the Holy Ghost.
In context means in light of the WHOLE BIBLE not just the parts i choose to win my point.
i have seen here many people who are striving to show that God is on their side. God is not on my side (or your side) we must be on Gods side. Gods position on matters does not change. Ii is man who strives to change Gods position.



Couldn't have said it more directly than this :-D Blessed by your whole post, but especially these quotes. Some don't like to dialogue or play catch...just want to hold the ball :-( "Godly" wisdom is given by the Lord...so who can boast of something that was given to them. The Lord giveth...the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the Name of the Lord.
richie

richie


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Richie

 2006/12/25 9:40Profile
EVAVGELIST
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Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
After reading this thread. My question to most on here is this. Is the only spiritual gift in question the gift of tongues?



NO

There are more Spiritual gifts than just tongues. Some have questions about tongues, I guess they want to start wthe least of the gifts before they move in to the greatest.

Quote:
This is the heresy that i would confront



Quote:
i have observed much twisting of scripture to make various points



Jesus used Scripture to make his point. When you start saying people are heretical and are twisting Scripture; you need to make a reference. Hey if you’re a Bible Scholar, don’t just name call, show us what Scripture is out of context and bring correction.

Quote:
Thus for this Christian it is my understanding that God and the way HE does things has not changed.



His ESSENCE does not change. He does change his way sometimes, if you don’t believe that, go sacrifice a cow for your sins.

Hey, I appreciate those who are willing to back up what they believe by the Scripture. I have heard a lot of comments on this thread some I agree and some I don’t. When you teach or practice something you should be able to back it with the Bible. When your beliefs are put to the fire, that’s when you really know what you believe.

God Bless,
Josh


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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/25 13:40Profile









 Re:

Brethren,

When discussing some issue, I believe the first thing we need to ask ourselves is: [i]Are we in the Spirit[/i], or [i]are we in the flesh[/i]? If we are in the flesh, who then can teach us? If we are in the Spirit, who can judge us rightly? Because "[i]the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God[/i], for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, [i]because they are spiritually discerned[/i]. But he who is spiritual [or is in/led by the Spirit] [i]judges all things[/i], yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For 'who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?' But [i]we have the mind of Christ[/i]." (1 Cor. 2:14-16)

I praise the Lord that He doesn't leave His Word to anyone's private interpretation, but has given us His Spirit to guide us into all truth... only if we humble ourselves in awe of Him, as if knowing nothing, and ask Him for the wisdom of Christ that He gives liberally. No, brethren, the natural, fleshly mind will NOT do. I can testify that if I happen to be in the flesh, John 3:16 means nothing to me--I do not understand it because it is spiritually discerned. Likewise, with any other passage, at any specific time, we need to lean not on our own understanding, but humble, I said, humble ourselves, and ask the Holy Spirit to teach us. Surely, our hearts are deceitful, but the Lord is patient and kind, and if we deny ourselves, shedding our fleshly pride, and trust in Him, He will make our paths straight.

I pray the Father that we may be one as He and the Lord Jesus even are one; that we may ALL walk in the same Spirit; that there be no controversy or dispute of the flesh among us; that me may ALL have the mind of Christ. That is what the church should be. "[i]There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all[/i]" (Eph. 4:4-6).

Thus, I exhort you, brethren, even as Paul did, "Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, [i]that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel[/i]" (Phil. 1:27). May we be simple jars of clay! The Lord humble us.

Grace be with you all,
Slavyan

P.S. I posted another thread the other day, just on this very issue--"that the natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit of God" ([url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13933&forum=35&0]Here is the link.[/url]). Although nobody has responded yet, I believe that much controversy and division in the church is a result of us not being in the same Spirit. The truth is that only by the Spirit can we put to death the deeds of the body (Rom. 8:13b); only those who walk in the Spirit shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh (Gal. 5:16).

 2006/12/25 19:18
hisremnant
Member



Joined: 2006/2/2
Posts: 55
North Central Indiana

 Re:

Praise Jesus!! Lion of Judah


Evangelist wrote:
There are more Spiritual gifts than just tongues. Some have questions about tongues, I guess they want to start wthe least of the gifts before they move in to the greatest.

My point was that after more than 80 posts don't you think it is time to move on?

Also you say that forbidding the gifts of the spirit is a sin. which is far worse than calling it heresy.

And after many posts you have yet to make that point.

i gave two verses that quite plainly state that God does not change. i was not talking about sacrifice i was refering to gifts

And i never claimed to be a bible scholar. i am only someone who believes ALL of the bible.

and i haven't sat here and promoted myself or a church. How about you Evangelist?

Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17

 2006/12/25 20:33Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
And i never claimed to be a bible scholar. i am only someone who believes ALL of the bible.



Are you saying that people on this thread do not believe the whole Bible? If so WHO?


Quote:
Also you say that forbidding the gifts of the spirit is a sin. which is far worse than calling it heresy.



Oh, so what you are saying is those who forbid gifts are heretics. I did not make that point because I was not saying that. If you believe that show it in Scripture.



The two verses you referred to refer to God’s essence not his ways. I said that because God can still be the same God without changing and allow the gifts to cease. So the logic between gifts or sacrifice is the same thing; they are both his ways. I think it is much better to use solid Scripture to back a point.



Quote:
nd i haven't sat here and promoted myself or a church. How about you Evangelist?



My promotion does not come from man but from GOD. I do not try to promote myself, here, let me try, my name is Josh and I am a preacher of the GOSPEL About promoting the Church, Oh you are right, “LET THE CHURCH OF THE THE JESUS CHRIST BE SHOUTED FROM EVERY MOUNTAIN TOP, OH LET THE BODY OF CHRIST ARISE IN THESE LAST DAYS”

josh



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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/25 22:08Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

There are tests for all the Gifts, if the tests are in place the Gifts of the Spirit can be verified. The Gifts of the Spirit can and are counterfeited. That is why the tests are there. If a person has the gift of healing people will be healed completely, not just in feelings of a build up from a false healer, and walk away then the pain returns and the person is accused of not having enough faith.

The gift of the Spirit in tongues is the same, if an interpretation is not given, keep silent in the Churches, it is not from the Holy Spirit but man, and this is not a valid gift of the Spirit.

Prophecy, is the same you must have other prophets present to make sure that the Holy Spirit is giving the Prophecy, test all things.
We are all prophets, 1Cr 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. Even then the Holy Spirit must be the One dividing as He will.

1Cr 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

1 Corinthians 12:29-31 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. Yes, if and when and how and where the Holy Spirit divides the Gifts as He wills.

Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

This is the truth in all things and the Gifts are an important use that the Holy Spirit uses to build the Body of Christ, dispersing the Gifts as He pleases. The man that says he has the gift is a liar, it is not his gift, it is the Gift of God by the Gifted one Himself, Jesus Christ and used and divided by the Holy Spirit as He pleases.

1 Corinthians 14:37-40 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.

Never think that he has a gift unless he knows and believes and is tested by others that the Gift being used is from the Holy Spirit as He wishes to disperse and use them in the Body of Christ.

If a prophet prophesy and it does not come true, he is not prophet and should never be listened to.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,

Who is the One that makes perfect? Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Is Christ in you? 1 Corinthians 13:9-11 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Has He come? Yes, He is come in the believer and is now our life. Is He Perfect?

Again, is He Come in the flesh, yes He is in the flesh of Believers which has been quickened to contain that which is Perfect, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and God the Father whom all abode in and with us. 1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: I He Come? If you are a Christian, Yes.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Don't deny the Gifts but they must be verified and tested by all believers that they are of Christ by the use of the Holy Spirit Himself in and through the believer.

1 Corinthians 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these (gifts) worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will.

Think about it, The gifts must be divided and worked through the Holy Spirit as He wills or Christians would do the same thing to the gifts that Israel did to the Law.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/26 4:30Profile
EVAVGELIST
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Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
Is Christ in you? 1 Corinthians 13:9-11 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.



It is true that many view the perfect as Jesus, but, Paul had Christ in him, don’t you think? Paul referred to the perfect coming as a future event. If you truly believe Jesus has fully come than a consistent hermeneutic would be to believe that all the partial in done away with (Including all the Spiritual gifts). I would say this refers to the future coming of the Lord.

Jesus went away:

John 14:2-3 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I GO to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Yet, he is coming back for his bride.

Matthew 9:15 15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, WHEN THE BRIDEGROOM SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY, and then shall they fast.

Do you believe in fasting? If you believe Jesus has already come there is no need to fast.

1 Corinthians 11:24-26 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death TILL HE COME.

Once again if he has already come; there is no need for the practice of communion.

Does this seem problematic to you? Or can you share how you would handle it?

Josh


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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/26 6:18Profile
hisremnant
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Joined: 2006/2/2
Posts: 55
North Central Indiana

 Re:

Praise Jesus!!!

i will attempt to make myself clear. i am pointing out that what you call sin would be better refered to as a heresy.

A heresy is raising or teaching one part of scripture above the rest. It is putting to great an emphasis on a particular aspect.

Josh, somehow you seem to think that it is worse to call something heretical. Than it is to call it sin. i do emphatically disagree.

i realize that the Roman church burned many a man for heresy. In the above i stated what heresy is. The Roman church used a different definition however. ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A HERETIC. Even if they taught the truth.

Any way i agree that being branded a heritic was and perhaps still is not good. BUT i would rather you JUDGED me a heretic than for God to JUDGE me SINNER.

i can give you no scripture about heresy as their is none, the whole concept is of MAN. But i again caution you to be careful about calling someone, who believes something, sinfull UNLESS you can prove it. Let God judge.

As for( Mal 3:6 and Heb 13:8) i think you had better show me that it refers only To essence. You see this is what i call twistng. i believe those verses mean what they say and say what they mean. The Holy Ghost confirms this to me. They quite clearly state that GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. i used scripture from both Old and New Covenants.

Finally let me state that i believe that all the Gifts of the spirit are still being manifested i have seen and experienced them. They are not to be promoted however above any other truth of scripture. The only thing that should be raised high and lifted up is JESUS!!!!

Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17

 2006/12/26 8:53Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. Also born of Spirit is the only way the Gifts will work in a man, since it is not his choice of what gifts will be used in him to build up the Body of Christ, but it is the Holy Spirit that will divide the gifts among the Body that will be of effect to the Church of Christ, His body.


How has Christ come already? "Christ in you the hope of Glory". True this is a mystery but if you are born again, Christ is in you.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Over two hundred this statement is made, and most of them by Paul, " in Christ ".

KJV English Concordance for "in Christ"
Learn More About Our Word Search Tools
The words in Christ occur in 224 verses, including 77 exact phrase matches shown first:

Just a few: Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature

A new creature, a creature the is now God natured, by the Incorruptable seed of the birthing of Christ in the believer. Now all that is done is done by the Christ that is in us, if we believe He is born again in us and renew our minds to the Mind of Christ, and allow Him to work in His Kingdom that is already here, by His Spirit that is in us.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

The in Christ statement is not in the old testament, how could it be?

I see Jesus in me because I see Jesus in you and vise a verse a. I see Jesus in you because I see Jesus in me.

"In Christ: Phillip" is a real happening in me.


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Phillip

 2006/12/26 15:10Profile





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