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Christinyou
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 Re: After reading thru this thread

Hi Neil,

I am not against glossolalia that is languages on this earth, or The Holy Spirit using tongues to bring forth the Gospel as Peter and the others that received and spoke in languages that all heard in their own tongue.

Acts 2:5-11 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

What I am against is the use of tongues, misusing the Holy Spirit for what He was prayed for by Jesus Christ and the answer of that prayer.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:26-28 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus Himself said He would come, How? 1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. There must be a New Father that produces Incorruptable Seed, that is the birthing of God in the believer, that is Jesus Christ who makes us a new creature in Him. The Amplified uses "a new creation", that is not a creature that is being made new, but a new person by the Seed of the Father, that is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", that is a new creature that is a creation of God and "all things have become new".

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

When the Holy Spirit has come you will know that I am in the Father and I am in you and you in me. 1 John 2:20-21 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

The Holy Spirit does not mess around with unintelligible words. He speaks of Christ and things we are to know. John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Jesus never taught in tongues or a language that is not understood, in parables, yes, but not tongues. It takes the Holy Spirit to understand the parables and the truth of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

When will the Church wake up and listen to the Holy Spirit of Truth in the Knowledge of Him. What did Paul Pray? That we might know Him and the fellowship of His life and suffering in truth and knowledge of Him.

"Oh, that I might know Him".

In Christ: Phillip


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 2006/12/27 19:28Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Part 2

By Warren Litzman



The Holy Spirit and the Liberating Secret

In the last series of messages Jesus gave in John 14, 15 and 16, He laid out something very important concerning the Holy Spirit. These three chapters introduce the Holy Spirit, who was yet to come. In John 14:20, Jesus specifically said, “At that day [the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit comes] ye shall know that I am in my Father and ye in me, and I in you” (author’s translation added).

That is a very important statement Jesus made. If we do not understand what Jesus said, we will not understand the liberating secret. Jesus said only when the Holy Spirit comes would you know what God had done and who you are. You would know that “I am in you and you are in me.” It is obvious to me, from reading the Scriptures, that the Holy Spirit came and multitudes did not understand what Jesus had said at all! They did not have any knowledge about the birthing. They did not have any understanding about how Christ was in the believer and the believer was in Christ. Nothing is written about this truth in the book of Acts. The whole of what the Holy Spirit came to do, as far as Jesus was concerned, was missed. It is the same in the Christian world today with multitudes of believers misusing the Holy Spirit. They think He is power and the blessing, and they make Him the gifted one. They teach that He is the one who empowers man to be something in and of Himself, but Jesus never spoke of that being the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said when the Holy Spirit came, He would not do anything of Himself; He would not speak of Himself but would take the things of Jesus and reveal them to the believer (John 15:26; 16:13–14). It was a mystery that needed to be revealed. That mystery was Christ in man (Col. 1:26–27). The Holy Spirit would perform and reveal that ministry.

Jesus did not answer Nicodemus because it was the Holy Spirit’s work to reveal the Son. The Holy Spirit reveals Christ in and to the believer! This was missed in the book of Acts. Blessed as the book of Acts is, we have no record of Christ as the life of the believer until some years later when Paul received a revelation of Christ as his life (Gal. 1:15–16). The mystery is very important! Paul said only the Holy Spirit could reveal the mystery. Paul speaks of several mysteries, but the mystery of godliness is Christ in you, your only hope of glory (Col. 1:26–27). You come to know that only by the Holy Spirit.

The New Creation In Christ Jesus

He who is saved is “created in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:10). “In Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature” (Gal. 6:15). This creation takes the place of the old creation in the first Adam.

“If any man be in Christ Jesus, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2 Cor. 5:17).

This new creation is “the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness” (Eph. 4:24).

The new man is the born-again man, the one born of the Spirit, as distinguished from the old man, or carnal man, the one born of the flesh. The old man has a corrupt sin-nature, with inborn tendency to evil. The new man is partaker of the divine nature and life, and in no sense is the old man made over, or improved (Eph. 4:24; Rom. 6:6).

God created Adam in His own likeness (Gen. 5:1–2). Afterward, “Adam…begat a son in his own likeness, after his image and called his name Seth” (Gen. 5:3). This is the beginning of the generations of the human race. But something happened in the interval between the second and third verses of Genesis 5. Adam, through sin, had lost his likeness of God. When Seth was begotten in Adam’s “own likeness, after his own image,” it was not in the original likeness to God, but it was in the likeness of sinful Adam. Scripture said of Adam “and he died,” so it was also said of Seth “and he died.” The observant reader will find the following formula throughout the chapter: “And all the days of…are…years: and he died.” There is but one exception, Enoch, of whom it is not said, “and he died.” Enoch, who was “translated that he should not see death” (Heb. 11:5), is a type of those saints who are to be translated when Christ comes for His Church.

Ever since, that same formula has applied to man. Every descendant of Adam, from Cain and Seth down to the present day, has been born in the likeness and after the image of Adam, with a sinful nature and subject to death. There is absolutely no exception from this condition. Therefore,

“Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all have sinned” (Rom. 5:12).

Thus, “by the offence of one, judgment came upon all men” (Rom. 5:18). The words which are written large over the first creation, of which Adam is the federal head, are: Sin Hath Reigned unto Death.

That condition is unalterable, for God had commanded Adam not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and had made death the penalty for disobedience. That means death in its fullest significance: physical death, spiritual separation from God and the second death, which is the final everlasting separation of the body, soul and spirit from God. God’s commandment had been broken, and the penalty could not be avoided. When the Son of God became flesh and came into the world, He dwelt among men of the old creation. But He was not of it. He was not of the seed of Adam, but of the seed of His heavenly Father. Therefore, He did not possess Adam’s sinful nature. He was full of truth (John 1:14). He was in the likeness of sinful flesh (Rom. 8:3), but no sin was in Him.

Through love, Christ identified Himself with the first creation and took upon Himself its guilt. He was the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. As a result, He tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9). But God raised Him up, “having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that He should be holden of it” (Acts 2:24). He rose victorious over death. The Son of God? Yes, but also the Son of man. With His resurrection, there was a new creation raised by God out of the death of the old. All who are saved are quickened together with Christ in this resurrection.

“But God…even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:4–6).

As the first creation has one man as its federal head (Adam) so also has the new creation the man, Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:15). The first creation received its sinful nature from its federal head, Adam. The new creation receives its righteous nature from its federal head, the man, Jesus Christ, for “by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous” (Rom. 5:19). In each case, the nature of the creation depends upon the act of the head. It does not depend upon the acts of those who issue from the head.

As the unalterable law of the first creation is sin unto death, so the law of the new creation is grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life. The law of the new creation is even more unalterable than that of the first creation.

“For if by one man’s offence, death reigned by one: much more they which received abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ” (Rom. 5:17).

Since the head of the new creation cannot be condemned (Rom. 6:9–10), the members cannot be condemned. To be saved is to be rebirthed into the new creation under the law of righteousness unto eternal life. If one who has been re-birthed can be un-birthed, it must be possible to bring him back into his original position in the old creation. That is impossible! To say this could happen would contradict Jesus’ own words: “He that heareth my words and believeth on him that sent me…shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24). Furthermore, for everyone that is in the new creation, the old has passed away (2 Cor. 5:17). There can be no return to it. To say a saved person, one who has been quickened (rebirthed) together with Christ, can be lost is to reject completely God’s teachings concerning His new creation.

For the most part, in Christianity today, we have a religious idea that a new creature means we are an old person made better. Because Christians do not understand the birthing, they keep this idea that they are getting better; however, it was never God’s intention that we be better. It was never God’s intention that we be good on our own. We have missed the point, and that is why we fail as Christians. That is why we are not steady, nor do we quit our sinning. Our thinking and actions do not change because there is no concept change. A Christian is not a changed person; he has a totally exchanged life! That is what “new creation” means.

You may have thought life was the way you lived; but the life, the only life there is, is in the Son. Some theologians who write translations from the Greek have another translation of that verse that says, “If any man be in Christ he is a new race of people.” That translation fits what the Scriptures teach. As you read the Scriptures, they say we are strangers and sojourners; we are not a part of this earth at all. We are a heavenly people and were never intended to be earthly people. We are an entirely new race of people, but we have no understanding of that. How do you get to be a new race of people? You have to be birthed by a father, but it cannot be the same father you had in the previous race. To be of a new race of people you have to have a father who is of that race. God does not change us from one thing to another; He has an entirely new race of people on this earth who are not earthly but are heavenly. When you understand the birthing, you understand the lifeline of 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” We are a new race of people because the old has passed away. Most Christians do not understand this truth and that is why the world is not flocking to Christianity. The liberating secret of Christianity is still in God because we have not allowed the Holy Spirit to reveal it to us.

Paul said these truths were once hidden from apostles and prophets but are now made known by the Spirit. The writer of Hebrews said in Hebrews 1:1–2 that in the last days, God will no longer speak through prophets but by His Son. This is so because they are a new race of people. They are not old people that have accepted Jesus as their Savior; they are re-birthed people. If you really knew that, your life would be radically changed by that knowledge. You would know the only life you now live is Christ. You would know there is only life in the Son. You would know the only way you have life is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. If you understood the essence and the power of that, it would change your world, your mind and your ideas. It would change your health, your problems and your marriage. I am not talking about being a “good Christian” because I do not think you can be a good Christian. I am not talking about being holy because I do not think you can be holy. I am talking about a birthing. I am talking about something God has done in you. God put someone in you who made the difference, who made you different in character and person than you ever dreamed you were. You have been born again.

In John 3:7, Jesus said you must be born again, and not until the next to the last epistle written in the Bible is that statement ever used again. In fact, it is only used twice in the Bible. In 1 Peter 1:23 it says, “Being born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible.” You are birthed in the natural because a father and a mother cohabited. They performed an act of love; and, as a result, the father put his seed in the mother, and that seed is another person.

There is nothing a mother can do to bring about that other person aside from the father’s seed. The mother may have cohabited; she may give herself; she may genetically give her ovum to encompass that seed and bring out genetic effects in that person created, but that mother cannot produce another person by herself. It is done by the father’s seed. What did Jesus mean when He said, You must be born again? He literally said there must be another father in the picture because only fathers produce fruit. Mothers cannot produce fruit; they only bear it. Believers cannot produce fruit; they are mothers who can only bear the seed that is put in them. You cannot produce a Christian life. I do not care how many times you are baptized, how many churches you join, how many times you make commitments, how many times you consecrate yourself, how many times you go to the altar, how much good work you do; as a believer, you cannot do any good works to please the Father. There is nothing you can do to produce Christ-likeness or the Christ-life. You must start with that fact. There are many things you will do, but there is nothing you can do to produce that seed. The seed has to come from a father. That is what Peter is saying in 1 Peter 1:23. He says you are born again by the Father putting His seed in you.

Let me tell you what happened the instant you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. First, you need to understand that all you needed to do was believe. Acts 16:31 says, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved.” The instant you believed, you cohabited with another Father; and that Father, in an act of love, birthed in you His dear Son. That birthing is an act of love. Notice in 1 Peter 1:23 he said, “Being born again not of corruptible seed.” The new creation race was introduced in that verse. The corruptible seed is what happened to you when your natural mother and father came together. When your natural father planted a seed in your mother, you were birthed in corruption. Because of that, you came into this world a sinner with a sin-nature needing a Savior. You were unable to save or redeem yourself. The corruptible seed is the old life and not the life we now live. The life we now live is Christ because He has been birthed in us. This truth is explained more completely in 2 Peter 1:4: “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature.”

There are a number of things to be said about this verse. How is it this awesome event of another Father birthing in you another person takes place? It takes place by what you believe. How did you become a sinner? You became a sinner because your forefather believed what the Devil said. In the Garden of Eden, the progenitor of the human race had God’s Word available along with what Satan had said. Instead of believing God, he believed the Devil and thereby took on Satan’s nature so that every child he produced had Satan’s nature. That is why the Scripture says, “Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble” (Job 14:1). In sin did our mothers conceive us. How did that happen? Because Satan planted the thought in Adam’s mind that if you eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you will be as your own god (Gen. 3:5). You would not need almighty God; you will be your own god. Sinners believe they are their own person and can do their own thing. That is from the old nature. Peter said because we believe the promises of God, we have become partakers of a new nature.

Notice what Peter said in both of the verses we have looked at. In 1 Peter 1:23 he says, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God.” We are born again by the Word of God. We are not born again by a preacher, by baptism, by joining a church, by doing good works or by trying; we are born again by the Word of God. This all happens by believing. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.” Look at what Peter says in 2 Peter 1:4: “Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature.”

By God’s Word (the precious promises) you are a partaker of the divine nature. Another Father put His nature in you. That means the nature of God is in the seed, and the seed is the life, and the life is Christ, Christ in you. How did you get Christ in you? By believing what the Scripture said you became a partaker of the same nature of God. Do you know why people keep sinning and doing their own thing? They do not know who they are. No one has ever taught the birthing to them. They think they are getting better, or they are going to get better or will do right tomorrow, but that is false thinking.

When you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father put His perfect Son in you. You may not live like it, talk like it, act like it, or believe it because you do not understand the birthing. Religion and Satan have been instrumental in confusing us. We have not been preaching the Word. We do not preach what God did! Multitudes of people waver back and forth between sin and righteousness because they do not know God’s righteousness is in them. Every time you open your mouth to say a vile word, if you knew the only life in you is Christ, what would happen in what you say? The problem is not sin but rather not really believing Christ has been birthed in you! You have no concept that God’s nature is in you. If you believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, God put His seed in you. That is how simple it was when you were born again.

After Christ has been birthed in you, the Father will not depend on you at all; He will depend on His Son in you. As you walk on this earth, He will not depend on you acting righteous, He will depend on Christ in you, your hope of glory—that is the gospel. You have been lied to by religion and told that you need to be better, you need to put it all together, you need to get it under control, but that is a lie because you cannot do it. But the nature God put in you was God, the Son. You are partakers of His divine nature, and Christ can and will do what you cannot.

Conclusion

In this article, I have detailed how the Bible defines the word birthing for us. The most ironic thing in the Scriptures is that the Apostle Paul never used the expression born again, let alone the word birthing. John paralleled our new birth with natural birth by saying God so loved that He committed an act of cohabitation with the sinner. When the Apostle Paul had his revelation of Christ in him, he saw something John never saw, nor did Jesus of Nazareth comment on. When it was revealed to him that Christ was in him, the Apostle Paul saw it as a great mystery, which is truly what it is.

The religious world has thrown the term born again around without proper explanation. Paul said it is a mystery that goes far beyond comprehension; therefore, it would have to be revealed to you.

“Eye hath not seen nor ear heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him, but God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit” (1 Cor. 2:9–10).

In this article, I have brought out in John’s writings what the birthing means, but that is not worth a nickel to you until you have a revelation of it. A preacher can say that we are born again, but that is not the gospel. The gospel is not something that happened to us as an experience. The gospel is Christ in us. Paul said we are in Christ 146 times. The final understanding of this must come through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit works in our soul to bring our soul to understand Christ in us. That is why the power you receive when you are filled with the Holy Spirit is in this knowing. Jesus said He (the Holy Spirit) would not speak of anything but Christ when He comes. The birthing is what Christianity is all about. V



Christ-life Fellowship
PO Box 170307 Dallas, TX 75217-0307 USA

litzman@christ-life.org 214-391-0488

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Phillip

 2007/1/1 15:45Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou




Is this the same Warren Litzman that you are reffering to?

http://www.withchrist.org/MJS/litzman.htm


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JOSHUA MEYERS

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 Re:

Yes Josh, Dr. Litzman is who Mr. Stanford is speaking about. Mr. Stanford wrote his, "POLEMIC/PERSONS" about Dr. Litzman about 15 years ago. I have studied them both and You could use either one of them to answer your question of "name one". Their dispensational theology is the same, the life in Christ is the same, their new birthing and new nature in Christ are the same. They only have one difference and that is; "as" Christ Mr. Stanford has quoted in his Polemic of Dr. Litzman. Mr. Stanford is wrong, Dr. Litzman has changed as to like, Dr Litzman understands "as" was the lie of the devil. "Like" being of like nature of Christ by the birthing of Christ in the new believer, that is, we are like God by His Nature born again in us unto a new creation race of the Children of God by Jesus Christ, by no stretch of the imagination are we gods or as gods. There is only one God in three natures and three manifestations of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Father, the life giver, The Son the redeemer and procures that life for the believer and the Holy
Spirit the Power and Teacher of That Life. If you study Mr. Stanford and Dr. Litzman you will see they almost agree on everything when it comes to the process of being birthed by God the Father by the Christ that is in us. Their escotology is the same their rapture agreement and the ruling of Christ and His Bride in the Millennium are the same and the separation of The Kingdom of God for Israel and the Grace Kingdom of Christ for His Bride the Church His Body, also. They both use the statement of their writing being for "Hungry Hearts" wanting the truth of "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

The only reason I did not suggest Mr. Stanford instead of Dr. Litzman for your question, "name one" is I don't life Mr. Stanford's arrogance in his "POLEMIC/PERSONS" article. Would it have made any difference? I think not.

Study this one and you will see what I mean.
http://withchrist.org/MJS/neodisp.htm

In Christ: Phillip


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 Re:

I talked to Dr. Litzman the other day. Back in the old days he use to run with some groups connected to us. He use to preach with Jack Coe, A. A. Allen and had met one of my friends Paul Cain. I really do not know much about these teachings he embraced that separated close fellowship. I did not want to say anything negative for he seemed to be a man of God when I talked to him.

Josh


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 Re:

I talked to Warren day before yesterday asking if he had a study guide for his book entitled "Paul". He said he was considering it.
If you trust Stanford, you can trust Warren. They sound the same when they preached and they write the same. Different personalities but the same Spirit. I have been with Warren for six years while he was making stops in Sacrament Ca, and now subscribe to his "Church in the Home". He is still growing just like the rest of us. He and Miles, who is no longer with us are two of my favorite mentors when it comes to Paul and the Church the Body of Christ. May the Greatest Mentor, The Blessed Holy Spirit, teacher of Christ that is birthed in us richly bless you in the New Year.

In Christ: Phillip


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