SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The SIN of FORBIDDING the GIFTS

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )
PosterThread
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Paulwest,

I just wanted to simply present a biblically based view on the gifts. If you want to talk about fruits wait for me and I’ll post a paper on the fruits. All that I did was present a logical paper on the gifts. I’m sorry if I offended you, I’m new to this site and I thought it would nice for someone to see a logical paper on the subject instead of, “I CAN FEEL IT!! GLORY!! GLORY!!”

I am a preacher, and my message is Jesus Christ and him crucified, the blood of Jesus and the old rugged cross of Calvary. I have never preached the gifts in over ten years of preaching, I PREACH JESUS. Don’t get me twisted.


_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/6 20:56Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I’m sorry if I offended you



Ah, you haven't offended me, brother!

The point is, gifts often get blown out of proportion. I wanted to lay down some sobriety here. Nothing at all personal against you or your ministry.

Welcome, by the way! This site is a blessing.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/6 21:18Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Enid,
I was not going to say anything but, what are you trying to say??

Enid Quote, “I guess, don’t know, just guessing, that most want to be fed the word of God, instead of being fed up.

Are you trying to say my writings are garbage??

I write one article because I thought that’s what you do on this site and it seems like your trying to insult me.
If you want devotional what are you doing in doctrine??


_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/7 1:54Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

 2006/12/7 3:29Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
In other words, you can flow in the gifts and be preaching error, living in adultery, etc.


The gifts are without repentance dosen’t mean live a life of sin but rather God does not change his mind about instituting the gifts.
Quote:
Your heart doesn't have to be right with God to expel devils and heal the sick in Jesus' Name.


Looks like they used the name of Jesus; I don't think it worked for them.

Acts 19:13-16 13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. When scripture deals with the name of Jesus, it just doesn’t mean to say his name. This is more of a Hebraic term for in the character/quality of (IN JESUS NAME)

When you say imperativity on just gifts your wrong our imperativite emphasis is on the BIBLE, BIBLE, BIBLE and we float into living waters that reveal something of maturity and understanding of God. A lot of people harp on issues when they are looking for truth.
It is true you might not see people earnestly desiring fruits. Fruits simply come by abiding in the vine. The fruits may seem unflashy to you, but to us the fruits stand out, because we are called to be fruit inspecters. This paper is not just targeting babes.

You talk about babes or you have to do this first..ect When Paul deals with the gifts and it's order he is trying to move them beyond baby stages.


_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/7 3:57Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.



Are you saying it is in your heart to offend people.


_________________
JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/7 4:02Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Some people just have to have the last word.

 2006/12/7 4:32Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
The gifts are without repentance dosen’t mean live a life of sin but rather God does not change his mind about instituting the gifts.



You're right, friend. My exegesis of Rom. 11:29 was not accurate. I did some research and found that "without repentance" has nothing to do with the minister, but with God who gives the gifts. When I saw this verse I had always thought of men like A.A. Allen who moved in the gifts while living in unrepentant sin. I've even heard Leonard Ravenhill make mention of it in this context. And, admittedly, if you read it in [i]that[/i] sense, things do appear to come to light, but I know this is wrangling the verse out of context and misinterpreting the Greek. I therefore humbly submit that I'm wrong.

Quote:
Your heart doesn't have to be right with God to expel devils and heal the sick in Jesus' Name.



I stand by [i]this[/i] assertion, however! Remember: "But Lord, Lord, we cast out devils and healed the sick in your name!" "Depart from me, workers of iniquity!"

In order to heal the sick and cast out devils in Jesus' Name, I propose that [i]gifts[/i] must be in operation - albeit [i]false[/i] gifts. Won't the antichirst be performing great signs and wonders? What about the spirits of the devils in Rev. 16:14 doing miracles? Didn't Pharoah's wizards demonstrate certain signs like Moses?

Friend, all I am saying is you need to be careful. An over-exuberance concerning gifts [i]does[/i] render a sign of spiritual immaturity. Frankly, I'm so tired of hearing about gifts-this and gifts-that while true holiness and repentance and self-denial are avoided like the plaque. I agree with you that we should not forbid the gifts, but I do not believe your blanket statement that forbidding them is sin in each case. I hope I showed why in my previous post (the only point, btw, that you didn't challenge).

Can I take your silence in that matter as an agreement?

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/7 5:18Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Mt 7:20-21 (kjv) ;-)


_________________
Richie

 2006/12/7 7:36Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

I know people who operate in the "gifts" and they live like arrogant devils. Thank the Lord that we'll be known by fruit and not gifts. All the talk and emphasis on "gifts" is partly the reason why the church is such an embarrassing circus today. I really hate threads like this. All they are designed to do is stir up controversy and generate strife.

Fruit. Forbidding the gifts equates to sin, you say? What about forbidding fruit in lieu of gifts? Pentecostal churchs all throughout the USA last Sunday did not forbid the gifts the Spirit - be it tongues, prophesy, healing, etc. yet all throughout the week and up to now I venture to say those same people are consistently forbidding the fruit of the Spirit from manifesting in their lives.

Do you know why? It's not flashy. Like Dr. Tozer said, fruit doesn't strut. Gifts strut. There's no "oohing" and "ahhing" when fruit blooms in the believer's life. It's too costly, too painful, too self-denying.

I say forget about gifts and seek God's humility. You'll never find a humble and lowly man or woman going on and on about gifts. Christians usually start making neddlesome issues about gifts when something else is deeply lacking in their walks. I'm sorry if this sounds personal - I don't know you - but it seems you are looking to provoke a debate on this forum of just this kind.

Brother Paul




_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/7 8:08Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy