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sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
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 The "Secret Rapture" Deception

MARTIN LUTHER: "nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist...For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196, 197.

JOHN CALVIN: "I deny him to be the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist--I deny him to be the successor of Peter...I deny him to be the head of the church." "Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in 2 Thess 2), are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies to the Papacy." John Calvin, Tracts, Vol. 1, pp. 219, 220. John Calvin, Institutes.

JOHN WESLEY: "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers...He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the perogatvies which belong to God alone." Albert Close, Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms, London: Thynne and Co., 1917, p.110.

JOHN WYCLIF: "Why is it necessary in unbelief to look for another Antichrist? Hence in the seventh chapter of Daniel, the Antichrist is forcefully described by a horn arising in the time of the 4th kingdom. For it grew from [among] our powerful ones, more horrible, more cruel, and more greedy, because by reckoning the pagans and our Christians by name, a lesser [greater?] struggle for the temporals is not recorded in any preceding time...and the horn has arisen from the ten horns, having eyes and a mouth speaking great things against the Lofty One, and wearing out the saints of the Most High, and thinking that he is able to change times and laws." (Daniel 7:8, 25 quoted)..."For so our clergy foresee the lord pope, as it is said of the eighth blaspheming little head." Translated from Wyclif's De Veritate Sacrae Scripturae, Vol. 3, pp. 262, 263.

There are similar statements by William Tyndale, King James, John Knox, Phillip Melanchthon and Huldreich Zwingli.

After, these men focused the fulfillment of Scripture upon the Papacy, the church commissioned a priest, named, Rivera, to come up with another interpretation of prophecy. He invented the "Secret Rapture" theory, which, does not appear in Scripture. It was picked up by Darby, and, later, by Scofield, who incorporated it into his Bible notes. In the late '60s, Scofield's Bible was very popular with Evangelicals. They ran with it.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; IN THE WHICH the heavens shall pass away with a GREAT NOISE, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10. (Compare this verse with the 7th plague in Revelation 16:17-21.)

As we can see from this verse, His coming is, neither, secret nor silent, but, the end of the world, as we know it.

What did Jesus prophesy in Matthew 24, concerning His coming?

"For THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION,SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NOR EVER SHALL BE...Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and THEN shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matthew 24:21-35.

Jesus said, that, He was coming AFTER the Great Tribulation. Is that so scary? The seven plagues mimic the ten in Egypt. Were God's people kept from His wrath? Were Noah and his family kept safe during the flood? Yes. He is able to keep us through tribulation.

So, why did the New Testament saints look for His coming? They were being persecuted by Pagan Rome, which, persecuted Jesus. In the fifth century, the Roman Emperors gave their power, seat and great authority (Rev 13:2) to the Bishop of Rome. Papal Rome tortured and murdered Christians. One final time, the "Harlot and her daughters" - the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system - Revelation 17) will persecute the remnant church.

It's. always, been about Rome.

 2006/12/1 23:05Profile
GraceAlone
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Joined: 2006/8/23
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 Re: The "Secret Rapture" Deception

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.


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Kristy

 2006/12/1 23:08Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Only God can make a pre-tribulationists by His Grace.

The war begins.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/1 23:45Profile
roaringlamb
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 Re:

I think it is interesting how the men of old whom we would quickly quote to defend "justification", "sanctification", and other key doctrinal beliefs are thrown out the window for a relatively new teaching. Of course that being the pre-trib view, or futrist view.
We have gone through this before, and perhaps the other threads could be searched for.
Personally I lean post-trib, but this is one thing we must all be concerned with when thinking about being "caught up".
[b]"Without holiness no man shall see Him"[/b]
So does your view create holiness in your life?if not it is vanity.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/12/1 23:52Profile
sscr01
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 Re:

We can all have our own opinions, but, there is no authority in them.

There is, only, one authority - the Word of God.

Does anyone think they have a better interpretation then Jesus?

Jesus said, "...AFTER the tribulation...shall appear the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven..."

Are we numbered with the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system, which has substituted her traditions for God's holy Word?

Who do we think we are?

 2006/12/2 0:04Profile
sermonindex
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Online!
 Re:

Quote:
They ran with it.


That is a understatement!

Around 90% of the evangelical world now believes in a "secret rapture"! If asked why this is believed or where it came from there is no answer. You are correct in showing it is only 200 years old in its doctrine. And very much popularized in the last 100 years. I know that for any Christian who believes in the second coming we need to realize that it is "premient!" it could happen at any time. That was the general beleif of the apostles and christians 2000 years ago.

I am of them that are not persuaded of the "secret rapture" but could see some truth in it. I think many that hold this position and interpretation use alot of scripture wrongly to justify their position. I am still praying and seeking God on it, but in the meanwhile living "holy" as the one brother said and "watching and praying" for Christ's coming. I think that is very important and not a belief of the exact technicalities of the events and a lack of holy living in light of His coming.

Marantha Lord Jesus.

Quote:
"Without holiness no man shall see Him"
So does your view create holiness in your life?if not it is vanity.


Excellent brother!


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 2006/12/2 2:12Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

God's Holy Word says we are born again and in Christ and Christ is in us. Christ will not go through the tribulation in the believer. He already did that for us.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

If we are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, the only thing left is to take us home to His Father's House, as a Husband does in Jewish tradition. We are already His Bride, that is married to Him. We have our lamps trimmed and the Oil of the Holy Spirit to go Home with our Husband to the Fathers House. Those that are left with untrimmed lamps and no Oil will stay on earth to be saved in the tribulation.

We don't need a sign of the Son of Man we have at this time already heard His Shout Personally.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We already there, just waiting for the shout.

2Cr 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Where are we? Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Where are we going? John 14:1-4 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Who is the way? John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

See you in the Fathers House in Heavenly Places being prepared for us by Jesus Christ Himself.

In Him: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/2 2:30Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Only God is Holy. This is truth about Jesus Christ also. No man can be Holy unless he has the Holy One Born Again in him. Holiness is not what man does but what God has done in Christ Jesus. We are Holy Because He is Holy.

1 Peter 1:14-16 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

In Christ's Holiness: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/2 4:46Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
If we are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, the only thing left is to take us home to His Father's House, as a Husband does in Jewish tradition. We are already His Bride, that is married to Him. We have our lamps trimmed and the Oil of the Holy Spirit to go Home with our Husband to the Fathers House. Those that are left with untrimmed lamps and no Oil will stay on earth to be saved in the tribulation.



I am unaware of one place that says that we are already married to God. A [b]bride[/b] is one [b]in the process of being[/b] married, but a [b]wife[/b] is one that [b]is[/b] married. Perhaps you know of one, that cannot be disputed Phillip.

Something that has occurred to me, while considering one of the Hollywood style movies that depict a "post rapture" world with "tribulation saints" fighting against the Antichrist and his forces. In the movie that I think of, Satan's minions were beings with supernatural powers, walking through walls and working other "miracles", with the Antichrist being the world leader that they answered to.

In contrast, David Pawson (one who takes a more "classical futurist" viewpoint, where the rapture occurs "post-trib/pre-millennium") teaches that the reason why there are two descriptions of Christ's return (one secret, one open) is that there will be two viewpoints of the same event:

One viewpoint will be by those who eagerly anticipate Christ's return and, like Daniel, perceive that events are presently transpiring as described in prophetic writings. These will realise that Christ is returning as we comes.

The other will be surprised by his return, being unprepared due to their ignorance of God's prophetic signs, that are clearly presented in scripture. These will most likely be also unprepared for his return, having not kept their "lamps full" as the "foolish virgins" did.

Thessalonians says that we will "meet him in the clouds". Acts says that he will return in like manner that he left. Jesus said that his return shall be as the lightning strike that lights up the whole sky. He also indicated that we will rule nations, if we have been faithful with "worldly mammon". Jude indicated that he will return with thousands of "his saints". Revelation says that he will return to rule for a millennial rule, prior to the final defeat of the "kings of this world" and even Satan himself. It also says that his martyrs and those that have not "received the mark" (whatever that is/was/will be) will rule with him.

Considering all these things, consider this hypothetical scenario, Christ returns to the Mount of Olives, with all his saints being raptured to meet him in the air, as he descends. The dead, in Christ rise first, being glorified with incorruptible bodies, and those who remain will be changed, and follow them. For some, this will be expected, for others this will be a surprise, but everyone will see what has happened, whether they interpret it correctly or not. Christ goes on to reign from Jerusalem, fulfilling the prophecy that the "law will go out from Zion", and his glorified saints will be as "bureaucrats" enforcing his will, on his behalf. Censorship, morality and righteousness will be a matter of law, but there will remain some who are not "true believers", who will resent such a "violation of their civil rights" from such a "dictator".

Now consider this, there will be some who will be expecting a "secret rapture" prior to this "millennial reign" (if they expect the latter at all). What if these will be left behind (had my hypothesis above been true). Consider that they hear of one who is ruling in Jerusalem, and has enforced a strict legal system, and has claimed absolute global control. Those who enforce his laws, have supernatural powers and are enforcing peace, and allegiance to this world leader. I wonder if these "tribulation saints" will think that Jesus is actually the Antichrist? Perhaps they will be the ones who will gather together, rallying the "kings of the world" to support their "crusade".

The way I figure it, if the rapture were pre-trib, then either I'll go up, or I'll be left behind, and will be as the early church saints were with Nero, submitting themselves to him, while refusing to bow down to him. However, if a post-trib rapture occurred the way I claimed earlier, then if I am raptured, then case closed, for Paul wrote to the Corinthians, "...then we shall know, even as we are known.." Either way, believing what I belive (which is my earlier hypothesis), I will be safe, because the only thing that will spare me is trusting in the Lord, who will save me, regardless.

In light of all this, I read Acts 19 today, and was struck with something, Paul spoke in Ephesus for two years, regarding the kingdom, working miracles, and all Asia Minor heard the message. When the "seven sons of Sceva" were stripped and beaten, all Ephesus seemed to turn to God, in fear, burning their occult literature. Paul sent his companions on to Macedonia, and those who profited from "Dianna worship" stirred up the whole city to chant "Great is Dianna of Ephesus".

It is entirely possible for the inhabitants of Earth to yield to Christ's Millennial reign, and then revolt, when one comes promising to overthrow the One who will not tolerate their excuses from immorality. My prayer is that I will not be amongst them. May that be yours also.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/12/2 7:56Profile
sscr01
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 Re:

In our presumption and arrogance, we can pontificate all we want.

Jesus said, "For then shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, NOR EVER SHALL BE...immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days...and THEN...shall they see the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds..."Matthew 24. (Does it matter to us, what He said?)

Jesus disappeared into clouds, and will return the same way. If He is to stay here during the milennium, why rapture the saints?

I suggest, that, the saints spend the thousand years with Him and descend with Him in the New Jerusalem, when the milennium is over.

 2006/12/2 8:50Profile





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