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death2self
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Joined: 2006/9/28
Posts: 192
Washington DC area

 Whatever Happened to Repentance???

This is the title of Pastor David Wilkerson's latest sermon delivered at Times Square Church in New York City. You can listen to it here: [url=http://www.tscnyc.org/sermons.php]Repentance[/url].

For those who keep up with Pastor David, his wife had surgery some months back and apparently his son Greg is quite ill. For those who have been blessed by his many sermons on SI, I ask that you keep him and his precious family in prayer.


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Ed Pugh

 2006/11/30 6:52Profile









 Re: Whatever Happened to Repentance???

Quote:
Whatever Happened to Repentance???



For many, they have found it to be too hard to live and too hard to preach...

 2006/11/30 7:38
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
For many, they have found it to be too hard to live and too hard to preach...



This is true. And also we are dealing with a sort of 'slow death' in that like a person wearing down and freezing in the frozen tundra they are succumbing to the times in which we live. The world is offering more and more gadgets and things to turn our affections away from God and towards the things of this world. The more a person's heart is captured by the world the less they even think about the need for real repentance.

One of the word's for repentance means to 'change the mind'. The enemy is looking to change believers minds [i]back[/i]. He captures the imagination and folk start sliding away from their first love. They become comfortable there and it becomes difficult to move them out of it. It becomes very TENSE. You get labeled as negative and some sort of harsh person. You're accused of getting angry and then getting in the pulpit.

Any peace apart from repentance is a false peace (Wilkerson). Finney said it is impossible to please sinners. The conscience only rests when repentance has taken place to the best of the person's knowledge. What a wonderful thing! A clear conscience.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/30 8:09Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Amen, Robert!

I would guess the cause is pride. Have you all not experienced it: when the Holy Spirit nudges us to change we like to respond with "but..." "I do not want to.." "What will others think of me?" "My church/pastor does not teach this.." "I would be too embarassed..." It is I, I, I in the center of all our excuses. In my opinion it is pride that prevents repentance and in turn revival. The Scriptures also say "Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18

One day this verse spoke to me: 1Ti 5:24 "Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." I got this mental picture of standing before the great white throne judgment seat and having my sins enumerated before the whole world and not having them under the blood: thus condemned to hell. What a fool I had been! SO I had to think: which is worse: humbling myself before a few people and admitting I am wrong, needing help (and then getting it) OR waiting until the judgment day? Either way my sins are going to be exposed, and it is up to me to chose when this will occur. As I see it, it is pride that prevents people from doing it now.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/11/30 8:38Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Either way my sins are going to be exposed, and it is up to me to chose when this will occur. As I see it, it is pride that prevents people from doing it now.



This is a point I have often thought of. Those ministers who have 'fallen' in the faith have already been [i]exposed[/i]. Their sins are not following after them.

The sad thing that too often happens is that Christians present their good works before hand and then their sins follow after. We need this in reverse. What if we presented ourselves transparent and was honest and leveled with folk while at the same time not allowing our right hand know what the left hand doeth in our 'good works'? You push your failures in front and allow the good works to follow.

But this is not what I see. I see folk always trying to come off as if they are in perfection or something and you almost never hear of them having to repent. Can this be possible? The sin of slothfulness alone is epidemic in ministry and the church. Not to mention others sins of gluttony and lust and a whole gamut of stuff. We hear a lot of, "I'm doing thus and such for the Lord" but not a whole lot of, "Woe is me for I am undone and have [u]failed[/u] the Lord." Its almost as if folk have got it together 24/7/365 and never have a single incident. Well, quite candidly, I'm not there. I still have to repent and ask forgivness of the Lord and men from time to time. I'm not proud of it, but that is reality.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/12/1 10:08Profile
adamdawkins
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Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

I cannot be as thorough in pasting passages and links in as I would like to be as I am at work, sorry.

This is a good thread, agreeing with all comments so far. John Welsey wrote an article on Christian Perfection (I believe it's on this site) and I think the issue really comes in accepting that we are not perfect but also not using that as an excuse to keep on sinning.

I believe that repentance from dead works and faith towards God will provide us not only with a desire not to sin but also the ability not to do so. That is not to say we will be perfect and never sin (it sounds like a contradiction but it's not).

We are called to "walk in the Spirit" not in the flesh (Romans 8) and yet we know we will still continue to make mistakes. This was the struggle that Paul faced in Romans 7 and the supposed contradiction that we are free from and have the ability not to live in sin, but will also make mistakes is brought together beautifully in 1John1.

1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of Life,
1Jo 1:2 (for the Life was revealed, and we have seen it and bear witness, and show to you the everlasting Life, who was with the Father and was revealed to us),
1Jo 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we declare unto you, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:4 And we write these things to you so that your joy may be full.
1Jo 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

So, I think I might not have made clear what my point is - In answer to your statement Robert, I think we are meant be living in a life that is not characterised by sin, but not one that is ever going to be totally free from it.

The importance is in the fact that we strive towards perfection and that our reaction to the fact we still sin is "Oh what a wretched man I am" (end of Romans 7) as opposed to a "nobody's perfect" which leads to our repentance becoming out of habit as opposed to sincerity of heart.



SOrry if that was a little off point and rushed but I hope it adds to the discussion a bit. I'll explain clearer later today if needed :)



God Bless,



Adam.

 2006/12/1 10:23Profile









 Re:

Repentance preaching requirings the naming of sins. And this is not a pretty thing. But many preachers want to be pretty. So many preachers will not name sin. So many preachers cannot preach repentance.

"I believe that a long step toward public morality will have been taken when sins are called by their right names." Billy Sunday

 2006/12/1 14:25
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


{quote}

I believe that repentance from dead works and faith towards God will provide us not only with a desire not to sin but also the ability not to do so. That is not to say we will be perfect and never sin (it sounds like a contradiction but it's not).
..........................................

If the ability to not sin wasn’t given to the Christian, the Word wouldn’t be able to say, “Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”

The words pride and slothfulness bother me. Sometimes I wonder if my life isn’t anything but chaff. Many times when I thought I was at the head of the class I was really at the back. Those that are first will be last. It is so easy to see a victory in my life then be satisfied with that and not go on. Isahiah had been a prophet for a few years before he was undone and found out his lips were unclean. Maybe much of the words that were unclean were words that a preacher preaches on Sunday morn. David Brainerd once said words close to this, “If they only knew my heart they wouldn’t think so highly of me.” Pride stinks in the nose of God.

David’s mighty men clave to the sword and held the ground against all odds. I guess this fits well with another thread going on. To be like David’s mighty men a person needs to have given up his life. There needs to be repentance and with repentance comes death. It is when the seed dies or in other words we die to the flesh that God brings a resurrected life. Then God can take a desert place of our fleshly life and make it a watered garden.

GaryE


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Gary Eckenroth

 2006/12/1 19:04Profile
adamdawkins
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

Quote:
If the ability to not sin wasn’t given to the Christian, the Word wouldn’t be able to say, “Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”



Yep, absolutely right, sorry - I'm used to having to fight my corner on this stuff, not on here clearly :)

 2006/12/1 20:21Profile
WayneFerrel
Member



Joined: 2005/1/21
Posts: 18
Raytown, MO

 Re:

Lets not forget the first part of that verse
James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God"

This is the part that most of us have a problem with.

Also look at 1 Peter 5:6 - 10
5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Verse 9 "resist stedfast"
God Bless, Wayne


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Wayne Ferrel

 2006/12/2 9:53Profile





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