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 Re:

Quote:
I guess I didn't make the scriptures clear for this discussion, sorry about that.



You cant just take 4 or 5 verses and make a doctrine out of them... they have to be viewed in the whole context of scripture.

For instance, you quoted 1 Corinthians 12:3, and you made bold the words [b]no one[/b] in reference to saying "Jesus is Lord". Do you really think that Paul meant if someone just utters the words "Jesus is Lord", then it came from the Holy Spirit?

The phrase "Jesus is Lord" is a true statement. It is eternal truth... He is Lord. Even the demons know that. But just uttering those words does not make one a Christian. If it did, then you'd better be prepared to accept Mormons and JW's as your brothers in Christ.

When I say the words "Jesus is Lord", it means I acknowledge that Jesus is not just Lord of heaven and earth, but that I have submitted to His Lordship in my life. There is no other above Him. So when those words come out of my mouth, they are from the Holy Spirit. His revelation in my heart that Jesus is Lord.

But there are many who think that when they say this they are speaking the Holy Spirit, but they have not in actuality made Him Lord.

You seem to want to ignore this passage:

[b]Mat 25:44-46[/b] [i]Then shall they also answer him, saying, [b]Lord[/b], when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into [b]everlasting punishment[/b]: but the righteous into life eternal.[/i]

Here are some folks that call Him Lord... yet they missed the mark, and they end up in [b]everlasting punishment[/b].

Now, as for your quotation of Romans 8, especially verse 11... this is a wonderful passage of scripture. However, which Jesus is it that we have to believe in in order to be saved? Paul said elsewhere in scripture that:

[b]Gal 1:8[/b] [i]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[/i]

The Mormons have another gospel... another Jesus. It's not the Jesus of the Bible. Same thing for the JW's.

And the Jesus of the Roman Catholic Church is [b]not[/b] the Jesus of the Bible. The Roman Catholic Church preaches another gospel.

I'm afraid that your interpretation and understanding of scripture is quite possibly setting you up for deception. You need to seriously consider a hard study of sound Biblical doctrine.

I know your flesh will rise up and want to accuse me of being judgemental and this and that... thats normal. But the reality is I care about your spiritual walk, and I want to see you grow in your understanding of scripture, and of God. I dont want to see you deceived. The Bible warns that in the last days spiritual deception would run rampant, and many will fall away. It's no joke, it's not to be taken lightly.

Krispy

 2006/11/29 7:36
adamdawkins
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

Krispy,

Spot on. Yes and Amen.


I have met many people who have been lead so far from the Gospel through Catholicism, I've met people from across 3 different generations who, not only struggle to understand the Gospel but infact believe in characterstics of God that I have found to be [b]totally opposite[/b]to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Like Krispy, I am not being judgemental towards people, but on the doctrines and lies that hold those in the Catholic Church in bondage to this world and to sin.

Adam.

 2006/11/29 11:15Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Krispy

Quote:
For instance, you quoted 1 Corinthians 12:3, and you made bold the words no one in reference to saying "Jesus is Lord". Do you really think that Paul meant if someone just utters the words "Jesus is Lord", then it came from the Holy Spirit?



hey bro, i read that and it prompted me to do some digging...the scripture in question says this:

[b]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: F41 and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. [/b]

Quote:
The phrase "Jesus is Lord" is a true statement. It is eternal truth... He is Lord. Even the demons know that. But just uttering those words does not make one a Christian. If it did, then you'd better be prepared to accept Mormons and JW's as your brothers in Christ.



i'm not sure any demon has ever confessed Christ to be Lord of all but i am reminded of when Peter confessed Christ was Lord and what did Christ say? Matthew 16

[b]13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, F32 and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ[/b]

note that Christ asked everyone else who they thought He was and some got some things right and others were off but evidently Peter was hit by Holy Ghost and confessed rightly who Christ was. Nobody else did so evidently Holy Spirit has to quicken you to Christ as Lord or else you will never know nor confess it. Let us remember this piece of info, at this time Peter had NOT YET received Holy Spirit yet he was made privy to this Truth. Paul said rightly that NO MAN could confess Christ as Lord except by Holy Spirit however the confession of this doesn't end at speaking the words only nor does it mean Holy Spirit is living in you either. Matthew Henry (though wrong on some things is right on many and i've learned a lot from his commentary)says this about confessing Christ

[i]He shows them how they might discern those gifts that were from the Spirit of God, true spiritual gifts: No man, speaking by the Spirit, calls Jesus accursed. Thus did both Jews and Gentiles: they blasphemed him as an impostor, and execrated his name, and deemed it abominable. And yet many Jews, who were exorcists and magicians, went about, pretending to work wonders by the Spirit of God (vid. Lightfoot’s Horae in loc. ), and many among the Gentiles pretended to inspiration. Now the apostle tells them none could act under the influence, nor by the power, of the Spirit of God, who disowned and blasphemed Christ: for the Spirit of God bore uncontrollable witness to Christ by prophecy, miracles, his resurrection from the dead, the success of his doctrine among men, and its effect upon them; and could never so far contradict itself as to declare him accursed. And on the other hand no man could say Jesus was the Lord (that is, live by this faith, and work miracles to prove it), but it must be by the Holy Ghost. To own this truth before men, and maintain it to the death, and live under the influence of it, could not be done without the sanctification of the Holy Ghost. No man can call Christ Lord, with a believing subjection to him and dependence upon him, unless that faith be wrought by the Holy Ghost. No man can confess this truth in the day of trial but by the Holy Ghost animating and encouraging him. Note, We have as necessary a dependence on the Spirit’s operation and influence for our sanctification and perseverance as on the mediation of Christ for our reconciliation and acceptance with God: and no man could confirm this truth with a miracle but by the Holy Ghost. No evil spirit would lend assistance, if it were in his power, to spread a doctrine and religion so ruinous to the devil’s kingdom. The substance of what the apostle asserts and argues here is that whatever pretences there were to inspiration or miracles, among those who were enemies to Christianity, they could not be from the Spirit of God; but no man could believe this with his heart, nor prove with a miracle that Jesus was Christ, but by the Holy Ghost: so that the extraordinary operations and powers among them did all proceed from the Spirit of God. [/i]

so we see the context is broader, not just confession, but working miracles, not just miracles which the enemy could counterfeit but miracles inspired by and empowered by HOly Spirit. the issue however is confessing Christ as Lord in all things ie, in how we live our lives which brings me to what you said here

Quote:
But there are many who think that when they say this they are speaking the Holy Spirit, but they have not in actuality made Him Lord.



and this is key. to confess Christ as Lord with our lips is one thing and indeed one can't do that without Holy Spirit quickening him but as we see with Peter, he wasn't indwelt yet so this doesn't mean being qucikened to a truth means Holy Spirit is in you.

Quote:
I'm afraid that your interpretation and understanding of scripture is quite possibly setting you up for deception. You need to seriously consider a hard study of sound Biblical doctrine.



The same could be said for any of us, you myself, anyone. This is one of the reasons i love this place, we can reason together and God can remove dross and sharpen us against one another and teach us and use us to teach others. Let it be known that we shall all speak on a much broader stage than these boards soon. Krispy, you will see yourself on TBN one day, being used of God to set the record straight on some things which you see there which bother you. ;-)

God bless you all


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/11/29 11:59Profile
DWiles
Member



Joined: 2009/6/7
Posts: 1
South Texas

 Re:

Did ya'll know that Catholics teach that who ever teaches Justification by faith alone in Christ is a heritic, and let them be a curse. Pretty harsh words, but very true. They don't believe in salvation the way scriptures teach us to believe. Just like they don't believe in the rapture, because it conflicts with purgatory. Oh ya they also believe Mary was Imaculate (sinless) and ever virgin and never died. Read Romans 10:1-5 To me it explains the Catholic Church. I think if we think they are OK we will never see them truly saved. We must convince them out of Love. God Bless

 2009/6/7 3:25Profile









 Re: Two Babylons...


The most informative and thorough resource on this subject is undoubtedly TWO BABYLONS, by Alexander Hislop, written in 1901.


He traces the Satanic "MYSTERIES", the ancient world's system of demon worship in every culture, and the focus cities that ruled through that evil power, that eventually traveled to rest at Rome. He then associates the exact practices and symbols that were practiced in this wicked religion, and empirically bonds them to the current wicked religion, the Roman Catholic [universal] church.


The son, and his mother, were associated with Nimrod, and his wife, the Queen of Heaven. [ that would be Mary ] This work goes on to explicitly prove that every "Saints "day occurred on the exact day that a particular demon was worshiped millenia before Catholicism.



It also proves the pure Satanic roots of Catholic holidays such as Christmas and Easter, and the use of the myriad of symbols used in the Mass, and surrounding the Vatican.[ Which I believe to be the actual temple grounds of ancient demonic ritual and human sacrifice, the seat of Satan himself.]


This work is scholarly, and a bit "thick" and intellectual, but very, very important, as there is none that compares with it's bright and historical logic. It is a must read for any serious student of the "Catholic" conflict.


Many, many Catholics have repented and been born again. They would be called former Catholics, for it is impossible that the Holy Spirit dwelling in a man or a woman for long, could endure the wicked spirits that fly around the mass and it's filthy implications.


These are they that gave heed to the exhortation by the Lord Himself, "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!" Yes, Christians may yet be involved for a time with this great whore, but not for long, I think.



edit:circa 1858











 2009/6/7 8:11





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