SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Catholics saved?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

Hmm. Why must you leave the church immediatly? Scriptures please.

Many Christian churches have disgusting doctrines probly worse off than the Catholics (no joke). And they are born again and still attend that church.

Leaving the RCC doesn't mean your saved. Yes, It's good advice but not necessary. But I would say that it is necessary for their growth.

 2006/11/22 6:41Profile









 Re:

Rather than us giving you a bunch of proof text, why dont you give us scripture showing that a Catholic who is saved shouldnt leave a false religion. And why not show us in scripture hwo one is saved to begin with. Why is the burden of proof on us? It might do you some good to study this matter in scripture (if you havent already done so). I'm a firm believer in learning for yourself instead of insisting everyone show you.

I could write a book about the matter... but I think it would be better for you to figure it all out.

If you still insist that we need to proove it to you, I suggest you avail yourself of the mulititudes of threads on this forum where this has all been discussed before... at great length. It's right here for you to read, and to rehash it all again is a tad redundant.

By the way, stating that many Christian churches have doctrine that is way worse than the RCC is not a real good argument. You will find that many different denominations and churches who have bad doctrine get discussed on here. Everyone is fair game if they dont add up with scripture. But the basic tennants of the faith are what are in question here. I can overlook minor doctrinal differences, but when it comes to salvation, who God is, who our Redeemer is (and sorry, Catholics, it aint Mary!)... it matters greatly. Everything hinges on that.

And when the Pope states to the world that Catholics and Muslims worship the same God... I say... yea, I think y'all do. But I worship the One True God.

Krispy

 2006/11/22 8:00
DocH
Member



Joined: 2006/11/20
Posts: 5


 Re:

Quote:

lovegrace wrote:
Hmm. Why must you leave the church immediatly? Scriptures please.

Many Christian churches have disgusting doctrines probly worse off than the Catholics (no joke). And they are born again and still attend that church.

Leaving the RCC doesn't mean your saved. Yes, It's good advice but not necessary. But I would say that it is necessary for their growth.



Because the mass is IDOLATROUS and Paul stated "flee from idolatry".

Correct me if I'm wrong flee has the suggestion of doing something urgently.

Also, how can two walk together unless they are agreed (Amos 3)?

 2006/11/22 19:46Profile
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

I guess I didn't make the scriptures clear for this discussion, sorry about that.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and [b]no one[/b] can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


No where does it say that 'with salvation, one must flee from their church of deception'.

 2006/11/24 9:37Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1805
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I find it hard with the Catholics in our store does can anybody pray for them!! and any other Cattholic I know !! I find it hard as my christian bookshop is a multi-denominational bookshop. I did not know whether to put this on the prayer list or here!! Please move it!!
DOm


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2006/11/25 14:58Profile
Here4Him
Member



Joined: 2006/9/23
Posts: 212
England

 Re:

Love grace you said:

Quote:
Hmm. Where does it say in God's word that you must believe in Grace alone to be saved?



Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

and Rom 3:28
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law."

You know very well I am sure that the Bible teaches from cover to cover that salvation is entirely through God's grace alone- the minute we add our pinch of good works, or the minute we throw in our 2 penny's worth of our own effort and righteousness we have forefeited God's free gift of grace- He will not give grace and salvation to those who think they have contributed something to it- no matter how small this conrtibution may be.

God is hot on this- He loves the fact that His grace if free and amazing! Thats why we read in Eph 1:6 that the gospel is to the praise of the glory of God's grace- to say anything else is to insult God.

This is just so important. The gospel of grace- that salvation is only and entirely through faith in Christ alone by the grace of God alone (as scripture so clearly teaches) that Paul says to the Galatians in chapter 1:7-9

"there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

Thats pretty strong language don't you think- if the Holy Spirit of God is so strong on this then shouldn't we be- we must hate all perversions of the gospel, no matter how similar they may seem to the biblical gospel in so many ways.

The devil is clever- i am convinced that Roman Catholicsm is one of his most potent weapons in dragging people to hell- oh the poor people.

And lovegrace, with a user name like that you should be the one defending the doctrine of grace from the subtle errors that would seek to pervert it. I say that with respect.

And I still challenge you to ask your friend to look you in the eye and tell you that he/she is 100% sure that they are saved and going to heaven if they were to die tonight.

They may profess to believe in the Lord Jesus just like we do, they know the gospel (or most of it) sure, they may even say- yes i am trusting in Christ- but when the rubber hits the road, nearly all of them sadly (because of what they have been taught) have no confidence of salvation because their salvation partly depends on them. How sad.

And i repeat the words from scripture which I believe that our Loving Lord will speak to any Catholic who by His grace has found Him 'in spite' of the Catholic church:

2 Cor 6:17-18

" Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
“ I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty.”

Love in Christ, and may He lead us by His Spirit into all truth.

George







_________________
George Platt

 2006/11/25 17:19Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: in or of

Quote:
No where does it say that 'with salvation, one must flee from their church of deception'.



“We are in the world, but not of it.” I consider organized religion of any kind to be of the world, and therefore we must never sell our souls to it (be in it). We are in Christ, and we serve God faithfully wherever (ex: church) he plants us. Churches never own anyone’s souls, though they often try to do so.

I find it most interesting that when Paul saw the light from heaven, his first question was: “What shall I do Lord?” Acts 22:10 Paul could have blurted out all kinds of things in such a moment of shock, but his question revealed his heart’s desire: To obey his Lord. He had truly heard the Lord’s voice.

Yes, God’s voice can speak just about anywhere– including corrupt churches, esp where the Scripture is read. When people hear the voice of God, an indication of accepting it is a desire to give him the ownership of their life:“What shall I do Lord?” They are willing to leave family, friends, commitments, security, familiarity, etc if God calls them out. Yet they must be willing to remain, even if doing so means receiving rejection. Either way, it costs to follow Christ.

God will lead his own. “… he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they KNOW his voice. But they will never follow a stranger. In fact, they will run away from him because they will not recognize a stranger’s voice.” Jn 10:5

All that to say: Yes, you can be saved in the RC, but you are also saved FROM it, so that you can belong to (be in) a different Kingdom – God’s kingdom.


_________________
Diane

 2006/11/25 17:38Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

I would also like to encourage you to urge your evangelical friends to leave their dead churches as well. Here are some examples of what the church is supposed to be, so if it doesnt match this (regardless of what their doctrine says), then it is probably just as dangerous as a catholic church:

Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

John 17:21-23 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Yes, indeed, encourage all of your brothers and sisters to come out of dead churches that do not match the biblical description. Though, I do believe this will include as many evangelicals as it does catholics, for it has been as rare for me to see an evangelical church that fits this description as it is for me to see a catholic church that fits this description. ;-)


_________________
Joe E

 2006/11/25 17:44Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

Does the bible say we are saved by believing that it is by grace alone? No. The bible says we are saved by His grace through a faith that has been given by God. We are not saved by believing in Gods grace, we are saved by God's grace. And we are saved by His grace through Faith. Faith in His grace? No, Faith in Jesus, the Person. No, not an intellectual faith, but a faith of the heart (For, with the heart man believes unto righteousness and then he is able to confess with his mouth unto salvation, Rom 10). What is this faith? It is the same kind of faith that two friends share in one another. It is the same kind of faith that a husband has in his wife or a wife in her husband. The husband must not merely believe she exists to truly be her husband, but must trust her and in trusting her walk with her. This is the kind of faith that Jesus requires. Through it one begins to see Jesus more and more, and their doctrine becomes purified, and more importantly, their life is purified.

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." John 15:4-6

Why do we focus on these externals for salvation. We expect people to have perfect doctrine in order to consider them to be saved. Or to atleast match our chosen 5 fundamentals, or our 7 fundamentals, or howover many you may choose. This is wicked. This is not what Jesus taught. To expect someone to conform to a list of doctrines in order to consider them saved is no different than expecting someone to conform to a list of standards, or laws. They are both externals. What does Paul say? To live is Christ. Jesus is salvation, and as he purifies you you will become more perfect, both intellectually and practically through obedience.

Why have we chosen things such as the Virgin Birth or Saved By Grace to be the "fundamental" doctrines one must conform to in order to be saved? What about the doctrine of Abiding in Jesus. Or the doctrine of Repent and Believe. Or the doctrine of being Ready at the Coming. Why are these not part of the fundamentals? If I had to choose, I would take Abiding in Jesus over the virgin birth any day. One is just a fact, the other is true Life. Ofcourse, I believe both. But this is the simple fact: Eternal life is knowing the Father and Jesus (john 17:3), and it is something that starts now. Eternal life is not something that begins when you die. If you know the Father and Jesus you have eternal life, if you dont, then you dont. Knowing Him is something that starts at repentance, faith and the new birth, and continues forever. This is salvation. Dont choose 7 fundamentals or 5 fundamentals or 3 fundamentals, dont choose a law or a list of standards to decide if someone is saved, just choose Jesus. If you know Jesus, you will be able to see Him when He truly is in others... even through the weird doctrines and strange standards. And, as you get to know Him, you will be able to show Him more of the Jesus you know, and He, likewise, and purify one another as you both seek and get to know Jesus.

"But remember, sinner, it is not thy hold of Christ that saves thee-it is Christ; it is not thy joy in Christ that saves thee-it is Christ; it is not even faith in Christ, though that is the instrument-it is Christ's blood and merits; therefore, look not to thy hope, but to Christ, the source of thy hope; look not to thy faith, but to Christ, the author and finisher of thy faith; and if thou dost that, ten thousand devils cannot throw thee down, but as long as thou lookest at thyself, the meanest of those evil spirits may tread thee beneath his feet. It is not faith, it is not our doings, it is not our feelings upon which we must rest, but upon Christ, and on Christ alone."
-Charles Spurgeon


_________________
Joe E

 2006/11/28 21:24Profile
Peacemaker
Member



Joined: 2006/9/3
Posts: 48
Bakersfield, California

 Re:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Executive Summary of New Testament Biblical Truth


HE THAT HAS THE HOLY SPIRIT AND IS IN TURN HAD BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A CHRISTIAN - HE THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND IN TURN IS NOT HAD BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN - - - Christ in you the hope of glory.

And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Walk in the light as He is in the light.


_________________
Robert P. Fairman, Jr.

 2006/11/29 2:58Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy