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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Original sin

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Again we have more Scripture which speaks of who seed are we, are we the Seed of the woman, or the seed of the devil...



1John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

In verse 10 John declares that there are only two types of children, "the children of God and the children of the devil."

We know that we can only be children of God by the power of His Holy Spirit. And we know also that those who remain in unbelief are those who are the children of the devil, again by the spirit that holds sway over the world.

Corruption comes more heavily on those who remain under the influence of Satan.

We see the evidence of corruption here in the U.S. 85% of those who cry out to the Lord for salvation come before their 17th birthday. As the years of corruption grow in the man of unbelief so does his heart harden under the sway of Satan.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/30 0:40Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
rookie wrote:
The only way to have sympathy with what the devil had was to have a conversation with him.


This word "conversation" is not as you are presenting as todays definition of the word, "to communicate".
It actualy means what one lives for, or how one conducts oneself.

Quote:
rookie wrote:
Which seed do we allow to grow in us determines who our father will be.


I would add more understanding, and call it our slave master.
[b]Romans 6:16[/b] [color=990000]Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves to whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or obedience to righteousness?[/color]

Furthermore, I would add to call us either instruments of unrighteousness unto sin or instruments of righteousness unto God as we yield our members(Rom 6:13)

Notice, I said, "Judas had sympathy with [b]what the devil [u]had[/u][/b]"
I didn't say that Judas had sympathy for the devil.
[b]Matthew 16:23[/b] [color=990000]But he turned, and said to Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: you are an offence to me: for you savoure not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.[/color]

Peter did't have sympathy for the devil, but with those that be of men.
In other words, human wisdom, huminism.

People are not atracted to the devil himself but is tempted by their own lusts, being pulled away and enticed.
It is ungodly attractions them that conceives and gives birth to sin.
However, if one keeps that sympathy with what the devil has, it catches you and what comes from this capture is slavery to sin.
Then, when this slavery to sin is finished, it breeds death(Jas 1:14-15).

It is the sin and/or the lies of the devil that we sympathize with.

 2007/4/30 22:43Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Brother Logic wrote:

Quote:
It actualy means what one lives for, or how one conducts oneself.



The word conversation was taken from the Tyndale and KJV Bible for that verse.

But the above definition still is fine..."what one lives for" means that one has been given first a vision of where he might travel...

We know that Satan is portrayed in Scripture as one who leads one down the path to destruction.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/1 0:24Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Brother Logic wrote:

Quote:
Furthermore, I would add to call us either instruments of unrighteousness unto sin or instruments of righteousness unto God as we yield our members(Rom 6:13)



I think I have an appropriate example for your quote of Scripture...

Genesis 4:

Gen. 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

Gen. 4:8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.

In verse 7 we find that God is not pleased with Cain. God then exhorts Cain to repent. He also warns Cain that if he chooses not to obey Him, the consequence of Cain's unbelief or disobedience opens the door to "sin". God states that Cain must rule over sin.

Then we find in 1 John 3


1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

The result of Cain's disobedience opened the door to sin. We find that John describes Cain as a child of the devil. We know that those who follow Satan become just like him. We also know that those who are children of God become like the Seed.


We see in John's writings that we have a choice to 'practice" righteousness or not. We are either "instruments of righteousness" or "instruments of unrighteousness." When we contemplate the word "instrument" does this not suggest that there is "another" which guides the practice of the "instrument?"
So what does this say of the doctrine of "original sin?"

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/1 0:36Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
rookie wrote:
We know that those who follow Satan become just like him.


I like this.
Isn't it some where in the Bible that those who worship idols, become like them?
Or
One become like what ever one worships?
I worship Jesus, I will become like HIM!!!!

Cain worshiped an idol, for he must have because he didn't worship according to God's standard of blood sacrifice. That is why God didn't approve his sacrifice.

 2007/5/1 11:42Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
1John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

In this section of Scripture we find that "all that is in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world.

Likewise John writes...

1John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

So where does sin find it's origin?

Is it born in the flesh or brought about by the work of the
"governor" of this world?

In Christ
Jeff




Why blame Satan for what you and I have control over?

 2007/5/1 11:58
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Brother Ormly askes:

Quote:
Why blame Satan for what you and I have control over?



The question is not of blame but of choice...

Cain is given to us as an example of the choice that God gives to His creation...


Gen 4:3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.
Gen 4:4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,
Gen 4:5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."


God had a conversation with Cain. He encouraged Cain to repent and come near to Him. And God also warned Cain that "sin lies at the door...and its desire is for you..." This example totally contradicts what most believe about the doctrine of 'original sin." According to Scripture, Cain recieved both the knowlegde of good and evil. God warned him of the consequences of unbelief. We too have been given the knowledge of good and evil. We to must choose the path. One path leads to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the other path leads to Satan.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/1 22:01Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
rookie wrote:
We too have been given the knowledge of good and evil.

This is how we were "given the knowledge of good and evil"

[b]Romans 3:20b[/b] [color=990000]...for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[/color]
[b]&[/b]
[b]Romans 7:7[/b] [color=990000] ...I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[/color]

We were not born with it!!!

 2007/5/1 22:25Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4791


 Re:

Logic wrote:

Quote:
We were not born with it!!!



I agree.

We are exposed to the knowledge of good and evil by the spiritual.

God is at work...


Job 33:14 For God speaks in one way, and in two, though man does not perceive it.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls upon men, while they slumber on their beds,
16 then he opens the ears of men, and terrifies them with warnings,
17 that he may turn man aside from his deed, and cut off pride from man;
18 he keeps back his soul from the Pit, his life from perishing by the sword.
19 "Man is also chastened with pain upon his bed, and with continual strife in his bones;
20 so that his life loathes bread, and his appetite dainty food.
21 His flesh is so wasted away that it cannot be seen; and his bones which were not seen stick out.
22 His soul draws near the Pit, and his life to those who bring death.
23 If there be for him an angel, a mediator, one of the thousand, to declare to man what is right for him;
24 and he is gracious to him, and says, 'Deliver him from going down into the Pit, I have found a ransom;
25 let his flesh become fresh with youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor';
26 then man prays to God, and he accepts him, he comes into his presence with joy. He recounts to men his salvation,
27 and he sings before men, and says: 'I sinned and perverted what was right, and it was not requited to me.
28 He has redeemed my soul from going down into the Pit, and my life shall see the light.'
29 "Behold, God does all these things, twice, three times, with a man,
30 to bring back his soul from the Pit, that he may see the light of life.


And the devil is at work...

Jhn 8:38 "I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with[fn12] your father."
Jhn 8:39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.
Jhn 8:40 "But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.
Jhn 8:41 "You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father--God."
Jhn 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
Jhn 8:43 "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
Jhn 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

In Christ
Jeff



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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/1 23:09Profile





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