Santa Clara, CA
I can't comprehend headbangin' to 'The Number Of The Beast' and mortifying my fleshly members at the same time.
A bit short on time here but wanted to note something about this. About the time this album came out a brother who was instrumental in where I find myself these days was hounding me with tract's and whatnot. Actually that was my perspective, he often was bringing conviction without really even trying, making me think and consider ... We would often have a great deal of discussions on music, my take more from a musicians standpoint and his ... well, not far from the hyperbole that I have just been attempting to expose. The timing was interesting and think we both were learning from each other, he wasn't overbearing on the matter but he really through me for a loop with all the talk of 'this world', whatever could he mean? I didn't get it.
There was a great struggle regardless, you see I still 'believed in God' even throughout those years, I had as of yet come to [i]know[/i] Him in what has become the ever growing and vast contemplation that is now becoming the recognition that I know next to nothing .. ;-)
What I would often do in my mind in those days was to try and justify things to ease my conscience I suppose, while still trying to find God in it ... it was an honest, muddied confusion. Strange that this very album was something that probably began to more integrate the thought's of judgment, of eternity. Later recall reading that the motivation for the whole conceptual idea's in the album sprung from a dream that the bassist .... Harris? I believe it is, (been awhile) wrote out of. For all the imagery of the album cover, for all the controversy that caused the 'Fundy's' to come unglued about at the time ... Recall none that actually took the time to attempt to understand it all, only found the fodder they were looking for and the ammunition to denounce ... Anyway, the lyrics below.
Niko McBain, was delighted to hear about his testimony, where he is in his particular walk, his commitment or level of understanding ...
Is this really any of our business when we get right down to it? What I mean is, are we to take the quick clippings, the little that is known and make a case one way or the other? Isn't the larger question, [i]why[/i] are we so interested in attempting to figure these things out? Not trying to be pointed or accusatory, just food for thought.
[i]Woe to you Oh Earth and Sea
for the Devil sends the beast with wrath
because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding
reckon the number of the beast
for it is a human number
its number is six hundred and sixty six.
I left alone my mind was blank
I needed time to think to get the memories from my mind
What did I see can I believe that what I saw
that night was real and not just fantasy
Just what I saw in my old dreams were they
reflections of my warped mind staring back at me
Cuz' in my dreams it's always there the evil face that twists my mind
and brings me to despair
The night was black was no use holding back
Cuz' I just had to see was someone watching me
In the mist dark figures move and twist
was all this for real or just some kind of hell
666 the Number of the Beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released
Torches blazed and sacred chants were phrased
as they start to cry hands held to the sky
In the night the fires are burning bright
the ritual has begun Satan's work is done
666 the Number of the Beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight
This can't go on I must inform the law
Can this still be real or just some crazy dream
but I feel drawn towards the chanting hordes
they seem to mesmerize...can't avoid their eyes
666 the Number of the Beast
666 the one for you and me
I'm coming back I will return
And I'll possess your body and I'll make you burn
I have the fire I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take its course[/i]
| 2006/11/16 9:49||Profile|
How 'bout Niko McBain testifying that he's also a born-again Christian, and continues to tour with Iron Maiden as their drummer?
I was a huge fan of Iron Maiden back in the day. I am in no way promoting them to everyone here, but that is a fine example of a band that has been misunderstood. Most think they are Satanic, etc. "The Number of the Beast" was mentioned here... I never saw that as a song that showed the antichrist in a positive manner at all. In fact, the song is about the horror of the antichrist.
At any rate, almost all of there songs are about history, especially British history. They covered subjects such as World War I, World War II, fighter pilots, submarines, legends and myths from the Dark Ages... many of their songs were about man's inhumanity to man, injustice and war. It wasnt exactly music to party and get stoned to... it was too intelligent, too "high brow", if you will. Very skillfull. If you wanted party music, then you put on (pre-Hagar) Van Halen... Fair Warning was my personal VH album of choice for that.
Extremely intelligent and educational lyrics, Iron Maiden...
Again, I'm not an apologist for Iron Maiden... but to bolster some of what Mike was saying, here is a band that Christians are willing to label as Satanic when they werent at all. Instead of taking to time to know what we're talking about... we'd rather run our mouths. Better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. (Thats not directed at anyone in particular... just a general statement)
Let's be informed before we pick up the battle flag and run in with both barrels blazing.
Being a Christian doesnt mean we disengage our brains. In fact, I think we have an obligation to be informed.
| 2006/11/16 9:53|
Most think they are Satanic
So, Krispy, are you saying that Maiden is not "Satanic"? I was very much into them in the 80's, had all their albums, Eddie "The trooper" painted on the back of my denim, hair down to the middle of my back. I've been to their concerts, seen Powerslave, etc. I can tell you first hand that Iron Maiden is not Christian, nor propogates the holiness of Jesus Christ. Many of their followers are are hardline drug-users, and Steve Harris and Bruce Dickenson have [i]never[/i] comunicated the gospel from the stage. Their songs are of vain subjects i.e. primitive man's quest for fire, Greek and Egyptian mythological references, Biblical verses taken out of context, secular, godless poetry. Their album covers are steeped in demonic symbolisms. When you look at Satanic "Eddie" rising from the dead (depicted on Live From the Dead) are you reminded of the holiness of Christ's resurrection? When you see "Eddie" holding a bloody hatchet on a dark, grafitti-ridden street corner (the cover for "Killers"), are you overwhelmed with a sense of the fruit of the Spirit - peace, joy, charity, long-suffering? C'mon, man. What are you trying to say in your post?
Jesus said that if you are not gathering, you are scattering. Scattering. "Eddie" scatters, and it doesn't matter how "intelligent" the lyrics are. I am reminded on the back of the "Piece of Mind" album of a photo of the band sitting at a medieval table with forks and knives, preparing to eat a fresh, human brain. Friend, is such a concept from God or from Satan? Let's speak the plain truth in love: Iron Maiden (the name alone refers to a Spanish inquisitional torture-device), and the whole concept of this band was birthed in the womb of a wicked spirit. Just like Rush (also very intelligent lyrics), King Crimson, Led Zeppelin, and a myriad of other "metal" and hard-rock bands of those times.
Iron Maiden is Satanic. Do they need to sing "I love Satan!" to be labeled Satanic? Would it surprise you if I said the Beatles were Satanic too? Or Air Supply or Barry Manilow or The Police? I believe that anything not born of God in Christ and bringing people [i]to[/i] the knowledge of Christ in all holiness and purity, it is of the godless spirit of the world, of the devil, and Satan's cloaked purpose is to use it to scatter. To isolate the true knowledge of God from the minds of men. Can you show me otherwise?
If so, I challenge you (and please don't do this - you will offend the purity of SI) to post the pictures of each one of Iron Maiden's albums on a separate thread, and post all the albums' song lyrics beneath those pictures. Then write captions to propose that this band is not Satanic, but is birthed in the Spirit of God.
I am sorry to challenge you like this, brother, but I got on and read your post...and couldn't believe a Spirit-filled believer would actually argue that Iron Maiden [i]was not[/i] of Satan - and defend them by their lyrics! No, the people reading this must hear the truth in love. And if anyone chooses, they can do an image search and
see for themselves the grotesque spirit behind this band.
Paul Frederick West
| 2006/11/16 10:45||Profile|
Paul... chill... the reason I clarified (several times) that I am not promoting them is because they are not Christians (altho Nico claims to be one, and I wont judge him on that).
I never said they were not of Satan. The band Alabama are of Satan. Anything that is not of God is of Satan.
Neither were they Satanist. And, in fact, one of the few bands in that genre that were not drug fiends. Alcholics perhaps, but during a time when cocaine ruled the roost... they were very tame.
They were/are lost men. They promote a worldly view of life. I'm not condoning this at all, as I clarified.
But many Christians who think there is a demon behind every bush, and are continually on witch hunts, would have everyone think these guys were sacrificing virgins on and alter and drinking their blood before every show... and this simply is not true. And when Christians spread this kind of misinformation they make themselves look like fools... and are liars as well.
What I am coming against here is the "let's make this look so bad that people will run from it". It IS bad. We should not partake of it. But to make it appear as something that it isnt is a lie. It's propoganda. It's as bad is Iranian TV telling it's people that Jews drink the blood of Muslims during Passover. (they really do tell their people that)
A lie is a lie.
| 2006/11/16 10:51|
Krispy, you are mistaken. I see you speedily read my post and posted to save face. There is a spirit behind this world, friend. It is not of God. Iron Maiden is not of God. I dare you to post that Maiden is of God. If you cannot post this, then what is Iron Maiden of? Be bold - speak the truth in love.
Paul Frederick West
| 2006/11/16 10:55||Profile|
To demonstrate the depths of misinformation that is out there... I had a believer in our fellowship inform me that they "heard" from someone (this is called hearsay) that Lynyrd Skynyrd was, before the plane crash in 1977, into Satanism and sacrifices, etc. This is simply not true. Artimus Pyle lives in Asheville, NC. I've met him on several occasions. He was their drummer from 1973-1977. I've witnessed to this guy, and know a little about him.
Skynyrd is not of God, therefore, according Paul's reasoning... are of Satan. I agree with this.
But to label them Satanist, or intentional worshippers of Satan is to spread misinformation. Skynyrd was not, nor has ever been, involved in Satanism. In fact, unfortunately, most of them consider themselves Christians... tho Billy Powell (the piano player) is the only one who has ever made a profession of faith in Jesus Christ.
My point is this... if it's not true... it's a lie. Even to give an impression, or imply something, that isnt true is a lie. We're not justified in doing this even if we're talking about rock bands. Does Ozzy Osbourne worship Satan? All indications are that he is just one big dumb fool... but not a Satan worshipper. Yet many believers will tell others that he worships the devil.
| 2006/11/16 11:09|
I see you speedily read my post and posted to save face.
Give me more credit than that... you know me better. If you want to play a game of "gotcha"... find a different opponent. I'm not interested.
If you want to have an adult conversation, I'm there...
| 2006/11/16 11:11|
I guess the crux here is you believe something can be of the world and not of Satan. I see this discussion heading to a point of striving. I don't want to go here with you. One of us must be wrong here.
Again, how in the world can you say these guys were not Satanically influenced when you see their album covers. How can you say there is not a wicked spirit behind the music. How can you say that [i]anything[/i] that is so blatently not of God may not be of the devil? Does one have to sacrifice virgins to qualify? See and judge for yourself, speak the truth inlove, and vehemently warn others to avoid the poison. Let's get a holy indignation to label the devil for what he is - the price of this world. He is in everything that is not of God, especially musicsuch as this. And yes, there is a demon lurking behind all this stuff, and if you can't realize this, I do pity you, brother. This stuff is precisely the reason why the church is so crippled and lame. We have a tendency to mitigate and not make a thing out to be as deadly as it really is. Instead of full-scale avoidance we rationalize and say stuff like "Well, the lyrics [i]are[/i] kinda intelligent. The music [i]does[/i] sound kinda cool and highbrow." It's not necessarily the work of devils. We shouldn't be so harsh and judgmental. Look at all the [i]good[/i] songs - songs of English history, alexander the Great, war, etc."
No, it's all useless, contaminated filth. It will distance you from God and robs unction from the Christian who listens to it. As for the unsaved, it innoculates their minds from the knowledge of God and keeps Satan's captives locked up tight. How can you not hate this stuff, and rail against it! And call it anything less than what it really is - the filth of the world, the garbage of Satan, by Satan, to accomplish the will of Satan.
p.s. I'm sorry I've upset you, Krispy. I'm not looking to fight, butyoudid post amazingly fast, and your response was shallow, like a quick defense, telling me to "chill." Can you not see how than can be offensive to me? You posted no thoughtful meat at all. I'm sorry if I came across as judgmental. I repent of that. This discussion can be over, if you like, and we'll leave it at this, for both of us to digest. Pray for my wisdom; I'll pray for yours.
Paul Frederick West
| 2006/11/16 11:16||Profile|
I guess the crux here is you believe something can be of the world and not of Satan.
Thats not what I said at all. The crux here is that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Re-read my posts, and pray for clarification because we're both saying the same thing.
It leaves me scratching my head wondering if you're even reading my posts...
Anyone who is living in the flesh is influenced by Satan. Even Christians are influenced by Satan if they are not focussed on God. Open your eyes, brother, and see that my posts actually agree with yours!
I've made it abundantly clear that my intention has not been to promote their music, or say it's ok for a Christian to partake. How can you and I converse for the past several years... and yet you would think thats what I said or did?
Perhaps you need some coffee? I'll email some to ya... :-)
PS... the chill comment was my way of saying "Slow down, brother... we're on the same side on this!" Thats all. I'm not upset. Just surprised because I thought after all this time you knew me better than that. It's all good, bro.
| 2006/11/16 11:23|
| Re: 666|
your long post on the first page on this thread is by far the best post i've read in all these music discussions.
Thank you for that.
| 2006/11/16 11:33||Profile|