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eagleswings
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Joined: 2003/12/30
Posts: 297
Connecticut, USA

 "The Menace of the Religious Movie" by A.W.Tozer

May be read on-line.

http://home.att.net/~sovereigngrace/menace.html


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Roger P.

 2004/2/11 6:59Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: "The Menace of the Religious Movie" by A.W.Tozer

Thanks for sharing this, that is a thought provoking article. I think it is incredibly timely, may we all prayerfully consider these words.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2004/2/11 7:50Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Ouch!

Indeed.
Would love to hear some thoughts amongst us.
Need to chew on this for awhile.
It's a big sandwhich.

Quote:
That I may be as clear as possible, let me explain what I do and do not mean by the religious movie. I do not mean the missionary picture nor the travel picture which aims to focus attention upon one or another section of the world's great harvest field. These do not come under consideration here.



Wish he has expounded a bit more on this.

Starter question(s):

Considering the timeliness of this, how do you see it ?(refering to anyone here)

What do you think he meant by the 'missinary picture'?

Does it (The Passion) fall into the above catagory?


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Mike Balog

 2004/2/11 8:18Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
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 Re:

Quote:
Considering the timeliness of this, how do you see it ?(refering to anyone here)

What do you think he meant by the 'missinary picture'?

Does it (The Passion) fall into the above catagory?



I don't think "The Passion" would fit into the missionary picture category. I think by saying "missionary picture" he is talking about a movie that brings to light, to the church, a specific area of spiritual need in the world. I think these were more documentary type movies and they were more common in the church years ago.

I believe that the type of movie Tozer is speaking about in this article is a movie used as an evangelistic tool, something used by the church in place of, so to speak, preaching; This is exactly how I have heard "The Passion" being promoted in my own church.

I found Tozer's arguments compelling. In particular he spoke of faith coming by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Some may argue that they are hearing the word of God in a movie but a movie is primarily visual, and only secondarily auditory. God has ordained the foolishness of preaching as the primary method for imparting His mind to men. To quote Tozer in that article, " Heresy of method may be as deadly as heresy of message."

He also speaks about how these movies tend to move people emotionally but the will is never really touched, isn't that an indictment on much of what goes on in the church today?

That's how I see it anyway, I'm also interested in more thoughts from members here.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2004/2/11 9:03Profile
Philip
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Joined: 2003/10/23
Posts: 26
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 Re:

The question crsschk asked begs an answer with an open heart. I am open to rebuke on what I am about to write, for I realize that it might offend some. If I am wrong from the scripture, please tell me.




Is it right to pretend to be Jesus?

Quote:
First, the evil effect upon the "actors" who play the part of the various characters in the show; this is not the less because it is unsuspected. Who can, while in a state of fellowship with God, dare to play at being a prophet? Who has the gall to pretend to be an apostle, even in a show? Where is his reverence? Where is his fear? Where is his humility? Any one who can bring himself to act a part for any purpose, must first have grieved the Spirit and silenced His voice within the heart. Then the whole business will appear good to him.




Apply this statement to "The Passion":

Quote:
One thing may bother some earnest souls: why so many good people approve the religious movie. The list of those who are enthusiastic about it includes many who cannot be written off as borderline Christians. If it is an evil, why have not these denounced it?

The answer is, lack of spiritual discernment. Many who are turning to the movie are the same who have, by direct teaching or by neglect, discredited the work of the Holy Spirit. They have apologized for the Spirit and so hedged Him in by their unbelief that it has amounted to an out-and-out repudiation. Now we are paying the price for our folly. The light has gone out and good men are forced to stumble around in the darkness of the human intellect.

The religious movie is at present undergoing a period of gestation and seems about to swarm over the churches like a cloud of locusts out of the earth. The figure is accurate; they are coming from below, not from above. The whole modern psychology has been prepared for this invasion of insects. The fundamentalists have become weary of manna and are longing for red flesh. What they are getting is a sorry substitute for the lusty and uninhibited pleasures of the world, but I suppose it is better than nothing, and it saves face by pretending to be spiritual.

Let us not for the sake of peace keep still while men without spiritual insight dictate the diet upon which God's children shall feed. I heard the president of a Christian college say some time ago that the Church is suffering from an "epidemic of amateurism." That remark is sadly true, and the religious movie represents amateurism gone wild. Unity among professing Christians is to be desired, but not at the expense of righteousness. It is good to go with the flock, but I for one refuse mutely to follow a misled flock over a precipice.

If God has given wisdom to see the error of religious shows we owe it to the Church to oppose them openly. We dare not take refuge in "guilty silence." Error is not silent; it is highly vocal and amazingly aggressive. We dare not be less so. But let us take heart: there are still many thousands of Christian people who grieve to see the world take over. If we draw the line and call attention to it we may be surprised how many people will come over on our side and help us drive from the Church this latest invader, the spirit of Hollywood.



Prove the truth of it with an open mind. Where is the foolishness of preaching anymore? Have we come above that? Have we become weary of the Manna so that now even the Death of Christ has become a form of entertainment for us? God help us! What Tozer prophesied is coming to pass.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
2 Corinthians 11:14

May we earnestly seek the truth!

Philip

 2004/2/11 9:11Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

I found Tozer's arguments compelling. In particular he spoke of faith coming by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Some may argue that they are hearing the word of God in a movie but a movie is primarily visual, and only secondarily auditory. God has ordained the foolishness of preaching as the primary method for imparting His mind to men. To quote Tozer in that article, " Heresy of method may be as deadly as heresy of message."

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


Hi all
others have made reference to the verse which speaks of the 'foolishness of preaching'. The good old KJV has led us a little astray here by its ambiguity. The word translated 'preaching' is kErugma, but the kErugma is not the method but the content. It is an heraldic pronouncement.

It is not saying that the act of the herald is foolishness, but that his pronouncement is foolish. It is not the act of preaching is foolishness, but the topic. In other words, it is the gospel that is foolish to the world, not the manner of its proclamation.

Just thought it would be as well to take that out of the discussion, so as not to distract from the real issue.

I would like to know when Tozer actually wrote this article, and whether there is anything from a later period which would indicate that he modified his views in any way. His logic, as always, is impeccable, but I wonder he begins with the right premise. God spoke in visions and ultimately in His Son. The Son is called the Word but is that really just saying that He is the perfect revelation of the mind of God. Sometimes NT prophets acted out their messages e.g. Agabus with Paul’s belt. there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. And when he was come unto us, he took Paul’s girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. Acts 21:10. Could Agabus not have said this just as clearly? Apparently there are times when a vision (the visual) is what is necessary.

If a film or a play (the religious variety) is designed to move the emotions, I am uncomfortable with that idea. If it is a graphic portrayal of truth, a living illustration, I am OK. If it is designed to entertain, I am uncomfortable with that idea, if it informs in a creative way, I am OK. Almost 40 years ago I co-created a robot for a children’s talk. The robot kept breaking down, and was repaired and modified, but never reliable until we changed his heart. After the talk one of the parents came, looked me deep in the eye, and said “I know what you are saying”. I am for communicating the truth of the gospel. To communicate I need a beachhead in the other person’s thinking, sometimes I have to create one.

On a different but connected theme. What about Gospel Music? What would Tozer have said about that? And was Handel a more godly man than some others? The music used in Tozer’s meetings would not have been 1st Century music. It would have embraced ideas and rhythms from Tozer’s own day. Oh, I know he preferred older things, but older is not always better.

And what about Christian performance music, the gospel concert? I play DJ for a week every year at a Conference; my taste in music is very wide. But I don’t like performance music, but for a different reason to Tozer. I think there should be lots of gaps in our meetings to give people time to respond to what God is saying. I think to awake a conviction and then move on to the next song is dangerous. There is an old saying of Wesley’s that comes to mind “I am more and more convinced that the Devil himself desires nothing more than this, that the people of any place should be half-awakened, and then left to themselves to fall asleep again; therefore I determined, by the grace of God, not to strike one stroke in any place where I cannot follow the blow.”

Just my 2 cents as most of you folks say.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/2/11 10:50Profile
crsschk
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 Re:

Quote:
I would like to know when Tozer actually wrote this article, and whether there is anything from a later period which would indicate that he modified his views in any way.



Had the exact same thought...Anybody? Any Tozerphiles out there with more info?

As usual great insights Ron.

Reading this (Tozer article) did give me pause for concern as I have the utmost respect for A.W.Tozer.

Shortly after reading this I was listening to Chuck Swindoll and his message happened to be somewhat timely, it was regarding legalism.
Following him was a local favorite out here, Fred Wilson, he was speaking on jealousy.

Taking everything into consideration, the danger of compromise, and the means justifiying the end's, it did make me wonder if maybe this could be a form of leagalism, haven't really worked that through, just more food for thought.

It just so happened that Chuck did discuss the movie at the end of the program. Kind of a quick little interview. He was very impressed by it, highly recommended it and said that he was '[i]more in love with Christ after watching the movie[/i] He said it really had that much of an effect on him and I have never found the man to be given to hyperbole.

In the following program Fred was talking about a situation I think with Chuck Smith(?)and the Calvary Chapel Churches. What it amounted to was he had started to bring in the 'hippies' from the beaches in the area and the congregation was having a fit because of their new carpet and pews
and here were these guy's tromping around barefoot, draging in the dirt and tar. As the rumblings grew louder, he finaly took a stand before the whole church and said that if the carpet and the pews were going to stand between getting these people saved he would personally rip it all out and dump it in the parking lot.

How much that apply's here...
Still a good story :-)

Last thought.
I believe this movie is filmed with the actors speaking Aramaic, with English subtitles, which would cause the viewers to actually have to read. So there's another wrench in all this if that holds true.


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Mike Balog

 2004/2/11 20:48Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
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 Re:



The article "The Menace of the Religious Movie" can be found as chapter 17 in:

A.W. Tozer on Worship and Entertainment
SELECTED EXCERPTS
Compiled by
JAMES L. SNYDER

with the comment -
This booklet was probably published sometime in the mid 1950’s.

Lars


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/2/11 21:33Profile
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Posts: 9192
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 Re:

More musings from a God struck fool.

Begining to wonder if there is not a broader indictment in Mr. Tozers article.
That being namely, us.
Do we all not 'play act' at times?
Even with the best intentions, is it not part of our 'condition' if you will?

"I'll pray for you..."
"God Bless you..."

Mar 14:29 But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I.
Mar 14:72 .... And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him.... And when he thought thereon, he wept.

Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
______________________________________

Was Jesus problem with the Pharisees not the fact that they were worse than the [i]Hypocrites?[/i]
Don't find Him criticising them, the actual actors themselves. The actors were 'playing'. The Pharisees were [i]living[/i] it.


Hypocrisy
HYPOC'RISY, n. [L. hypocrisis; Gr. simulation; to feign; to separate, discern or judge.]

1. Simulation; a feigning to be what one is not; or dissimulation, a concealment of one's real character or motives. More generally, hypocrisy is simulation, or the assuming of a false appearance of virtue or religion; a deceitful show of a good character, in morals or religion; a counterfeiting of religion.

Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Luke 12.

2. Simulation; deceitful appearance; false pretence.

Hypocrisy is the necessary burden of villainy.


Pharisee
PHAR'ISEE, n. [Heb. to separate.] One of a sect among the Jews, whose religion consisted in a strict observance of rites and ceremonies and of the traditions of the elders,and whose pretended holiness led them to separate themselves as a sect, considering themselves as more righteous than other Jews.

__________________________


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Mike Balog

 2004/2/12 3:11Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
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 Re:

On another note.

Reality check.
The movie is coming out.
Both persuasions of creatures will be going to see it.
There is still time, 2 more weeks.
To pray.
Like never before.
That this movie be used to go past the emotions.
To cut to the heart.
May it be thrust in and not pulled out.
Let that conviction rest that [i]You are the man![/i] and bring them to repentence. Even if it is days and weeks later.
For the Jewish people.
That their eyes be opened to see their Messiah.
The anti-semitic mouth be stopped and they too
be broken under their folly.
And Dear Lord, let us not fail You in this time, to be able to "... always to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason of the hope in you, with meekness and fear;" 1Pe 3:15

edit: We can be more than observers, but actual participants during the movie, praying for the conviction of The Truth. That what they are seeing is in fact, fact. Oh that that point be driven into their very marrow!

There is a great opportunity here.
Let us be ready for it.


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Mike Balog

 2004/2/12 3:20Profile





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