SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : THE RAPTURE: ARE YOU READY?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
777
Member



Joined: 2006/10/7
Posts: 7
Strong Island

 THE RAPTURE: ARE YOU READY?

I CAME ACROSS A SHORT BUT EYE OPENING VIDEO YOUR GONNA LIKE THIS CHECK IT OUT CLICK THE LINK (MUST SEE!!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9r_Jo4N-aE

GOD BLESS


_________________
Daniel

 2006/11/8 15:34Profile
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re: THE RAPTURE: ARE YOU READY?

Wow. That was crazy! That definatly puts scripture to sight. WOW.

 2006/11/8 17:52Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: THE RAPTURE: ARE YOU READY?

brethren
i saw the video this past weekend. ultimately there are a lot of things which need to occur before Christ returns. The Judgement must first come to the Church, then the world and then when it is done Christ returns. i don't think the rapture will be much to talk about, we as the Church have a lot of filth which needs to the cleansed first before we can even begin to think about going to heaven.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/11/8 17:57Profile
RevivalArmy
Member



Joined: 2006/7/26
Posts: 28
DETROIT, MI

 Re:

There are a few things wrong with that video:

1. There is no way all those people are saved in such an americanized steeple house. The ratio is totally wrong. If anything, the ones left behind would be saved in proportion to the ones who went.

2. There is no pre-trib rapture. This is false hope and leads to deception, or is at least the result of deception. Many will be tried and purified during the tribulation hour, and then Christ will return for a pure and holy Church that was purified with the fires of tribulation and persecution.

3. Yes, the tribulation can start at any time. The Day of the Lord will be a Day of vengeance and wrath. And then Christ will return in great power and glory to tread the winepress of God's fierce and Almighty wrath on all the ungodly, and He will gather His saints together from the four winds to abide with Him forever.

And as a quick note, the great falling away is already occuring. If you are not aware of this, then you are probably a part of it. And the Church is not filthy or sinful, what's filthy is the modern day babylonian system that calls itself the church but is nothing but a pagan system that's a cheap imposter trying to climb up the sheepfold some other way. The true Church is already pure, already holy, already clean and made white as snow, and is ready for the Bridegroom to return. But she's only a remnant and she will always be only a remnant.


_________________
Josef Urban

 2006/11/8 18:37Profile
Smokey
Member



Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re:


R/A

Amen

Blessings Greg


_________________
Greg

 2006/11/8 18:46Profile
allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re:

Quote:

RevivalArmy wrote:
There are a few things wrong with that video:

1. There is no way all those people are saved in such an americanized steeple house. The ratio is totally wrong. If anything, the ones left behind would be saved in proportion to the ones who went.




I agree with this but...
Quote:


2. There is no pre-trib rapture. This is false hope and leads to deception, or is at least the result of deception.




Where is the biblical basis for this view point?
I have heard a lot of speakers who can show clearly that there is a pre trib rapture (not just one or two verses but many stories in the bible which show the church being with Him while the earth is brought under judgement), but I have yet to hear clear teaching that says that the church must go through the tribulation.

I'm not being argumentative, I myself think it's a bit of a cop out to think we go before the suffering, but I would like to see someone biblically prove it.

Also where does this lead to deception, if anything I am more adamant that the Gospel must be preached cos we could be gone at any moment and the door is shut.

To follow your thinking, I could just hang around until the anti-christ turns up then get on my knees and repent cos we only have 7 years to go

Please don't call me stupid etc, I'm have this view cos it's all I have been taught, I'm open to anyone who can expound the scriptures with wisdom.

Ste


_________________
Ste

 2006/11/8 22:18Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Where does the body of Christ become only a remnant? Jesus said, the revelation of God given to man will be the foundation Rock He will build His Church, the Body of Christ, that is Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.

Do you believe that the Church of Christ is governed by the ones that won't believe? I don't believe so. God knows the fullness of the Gentiles and when it is finished. God also knows the number of Jewish believers that are given Grace to believe on the Messiah. This is the only remnant of believers of the Church I know of. Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. In the Church they are neither Jew or Gentile but The Body of Christ the Church, The Bride of Christ, which will be the Father's when Jesus takes His Bride to His Fathers House as with all weddings before the House of Israel of God and so shall we always be with the Lord.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/11/9 2:37Profile
NLONG
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 111
Middlebury, Indiana

 Re:

There is no pre-trib rapture. In Mt 24 Jesus clearly details basically the end just before His return to the kindgom. Notice He doesn't return until after the "tribulation of those days." What else do you really need? Just because a bunch of men with degrees say it's so, doesn't mean squat. I've witnessed long enought to understand that you can twist scriptures this way and that enough to support just about any wild fantasy you can dream up.

Jesus said it, that settles it, now believe.


_________________
Neil Long

 2006/11/9 10:58Profile
777
Member



Joined: 2006/10/7
Posts: 7
Strong Island

 Re:

The scriptures do point to a pre tribulation Rapture read below and study hard!! Bretheren...

There is an old story about three blind men who had never learned what an elephant was. Each was given a different part of the elephant to feel. One the trunk, another an ear, and the last its tail. Each then described the animal as something totally foreign as to what was the true appearance of God’s creature. The problem was none of the blind men had all the data required for a person to make an informed statement. Each was sincere in their belief, but were still holding to wrong opinions nonetheless. Their description would have been much more accurate if they would have felt the entire creature from head to tail in an orderly fashion.

The sequencing God puts to events can be a fascinating study for students of Bible prophecy. For instance, in Revelation 1:19 Jesus Christ tells the Apostle John to write down "the things which you have seen" (referring to the appearance of Christ recorded in Revelation 1:13-18), "the things which are (in the Greek ha eisin is a plural verb individualizing items which corresponds with John’s record of the messages to the seven churches in Revelation 1:20-3:22). Then lastly, "the things which will take place after this" (that is the things which are to take place after the churches are dealt with). It is intriguing to note that the Greek words for "after this" is meta tauta. These are the exact same words recorded in Revelation 4:1 immediately after the messages to the churches end and immediately before the Apostle John is called up to heaven.

"After this" the view continues on in heaven, where in Revelation 5:9-10 the Church is seen by John redeemed in heaven. Revelation 6 opens with the start of the Tribulation Period. Another wonderful example of the hope found in God’s sequencing can be found in Paul’s two letters to the Thessalonians. In 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10, verse 9 speaks of things that had been (the Thessalonians had been idol worshippers). Verse 10 then records what was taking place at that time and what was to take place afterwards (that is the Thessalonians were waiting for the appearance of Jesus Christ first, then deliverance from the wrath which was "to come"). A simple 1,2,3 sequence.

In Chapters 4 & 5 of his first letter to the Thessalonians and again in Chapter 2 of his second letter the Apostle Paul made clear exposition of two distinct and different sequential activities of the Lord. In Chapter 4:13-18 of 1 Thessalonians Paul spoke of the Rapture when the Lord would raise up the dead in Christ and would gather all living believers to Him as He appears to them in the clouds of heaven. He tells Christians to "comfort one another with these words." In Chapter 2:1 of Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians, Paul again addresses this same event when he declares, "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him."

Returning to Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians in 5:1-11, he chronologically reveals the next of the Lord’s activities when in verse 2 he writes of "the day of the Lord." The day of the Lord in the Scriptures starts at the beginning of the Tribulation period and continues into the period of Christ’s reign upon the earth as can be verified by biblical passages such as can be found in Revelation 5, 6:1, 11:15-17 & Joel 3:14-18.

This day of Christ is likewise chronologically spoken of after the Rapture in verse 2 of Chapter 2 of Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. Paul then emphasizes to the Thessalonians in verses 2-8 of Chapter 5 in his first letter that this day will come "upon them" (that is the unbelieving world, not believers) suddenly "and they shall not escape," and that this day would not overtake the Christians. In verse 9 Paul reiterates how the believers will have been delivered from this day of wrath when he again recounts the Rapture. Paul once more emphasizes in verse 11 that believers are to "comfort each other" regarding this glorious deliverance from the wrath which is to come (Revelation 6:16-17).

Verse 2 of Chapter 2 of 2 Thessalonians is the verse which is the crux of this study. Here we find that the Thessalonians are not comforted, but instead were sorely troubled. They have received false teachings that the Tribulation Period had come. Of extra disconcertment, the origin of this false information was being portrayed as having come from Paul and others in leadership positions. Why the Thessalonians were troubled must be understood in order to correctly grasp that which is revealed to us in 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2.

One of the passages in the New Testament debated by adherents of the Post, Mid and Pre-Tribulation Rapture positions is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8. The questions and opinions held to by the diverse points of view concerning 2 Thessalonians comes down basically to three subjects: the timing and the meaning of the events recorded by the Apostle Paul in verses 1 & 2 and who is the restrainer of the man of sin in verses 6 & 7.

Quoting verses 1 & 2 we read, "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come." It is crucial for the correct understanding of this passage to grasp that Paul was assuring the Thessalonians in verse 2 that they were not entering into the day of the Lord’s judgment. Fraudulent messages and distressing circumstances surrounding the church at Thessalonica had made them fearful that they were entering into the time of God’s wrath. It is conclusive that Paul is speaking of the time of the Rapture in verse 1 as described in John 14:1-3 & 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18.

Verse 2 begins the debate. Pre-Tribulation supporters say that while verse 1 speaks of the Rapture (which we believe transpires before the Tribulation Period) verse 2 refers to the day of the Lord which is the time of His judging the earth until the close of the Tribulation and on into Christ’s earthly reign. Opponents say Paul is still speaking about the same event in verse 1 and verse 2

The dynamic question which gives clarity of thought concerning this passage of Scriptures concerns the clear reference to the Rapture in verse 1. This is, why would Paul bother to reassure the Thessalonians that they had not missed the Rapture? If Paul had previously taught them a Post or Mid Tribulation Rapture then they would not have any reason to "be shaken in mind" that they had missed it and had entered the Tribulation Period. They should have remained expectant of their blessed hope, but they were not.

Paul had been the Thessalonians teacher according to verse 5. If Paul wanted to correct an erroneous Pre-Tribulation outlook then the sequence of verses 1 & 2 should have been transposed in his letter to them. The day of the Lord would have been presented first by Paul, then secondly "our gathering together at the Rapture.

If it was something which they did not believe they might have missed, why is the Rapture presented as the primary and foremost concern in verse 1? If verse 2 is still speaking of the Rapture, as some suppose, then Paul would not have succeeded in relieving any of the Thessalonians' distress, but instead would have in fact troubled them even greater by replacing their hope of the Rapture with the horrible fact that they or their children would one day face even greater and more terrifying tribulation then what they were then witnessing at that time. There would be no easing their troubled spirits by saying in effect, "you ain’t seen nothing yet."

Moving on to verse 3, we must point out that the words "that day will not come" are not in the original Greek, but are added in to help understand the passage flow. Quoting verses 3 we read, "Let no one deceive you by any means; [for that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." This verse was given to relieve the anxiety of the Thessalonians by assuring them that they had not entered into the Tribulation Period of verse 2 and therefore had not missed the promised Rapture spoken of in verse 1. Paul did not intend to convey to them that the worst was yet to come upon them.

Continuing on in verse 3 the reader must always keep in mind that Paul’s clear objective has been to reassure the Thessalonians that: 1) they had not missed the Rapture and 2) they had not entered the Tribulation. Paul expounds on these two main points in verse 3 by sharing two major events which will distinguish the true start of the Tribulation.

First, there is to be a great apostasy (or departure) from the truth of Jesus Christ by a non-committed segment found predominantly within the ranks of Christianity. Revelation 3:1-5, 3:14-16, Jude 4,12-13, 2 Peter 2:15-22 & Matt. 7:21-23 are some of the passages which speak of this faithless company. This false church will unite in global power after Christ removes the True Church and will bring to blossom the Harlot of Revelation 17.

Secondly, is the reference in verse 3 that the Day of the Lord could not come until the man of sin (that is the Anti-Christ) is revealed. Jumping ahead to verses 6 & 7 for a moment, it is vital to recognize and keep in mind for later that these verses speak of a "restrainer" which must be taken out of the way before the Anti-Christ can ever be revealed. The Anti-Christ will be revealed at the very start of the Tribulation Period when Christ opens the first seal of the last day’s judgments according to Revelation 6:1-2. Therefore, by the Word of God, the Church must be removed before the start of the Tribulation in order to harmonize with the sequence established by seeing the Church in heaven in Revelation 5:9-10 prior to the opening of the first seal of the Tribulation in Revelation 6.

Chapter 1:4-6 of 2 Thessalonians makes it abundantly clear that the Thessalonians were suffering terrible persecutions and tribulation. We must ask ourselves again what kind of consolation is Paul supposed to be giving? According to Post and Mid Tribulation interpretations, Paul is telling them not to hope for the Lord’s coming for any deliverance. Instead, he is telling them that the suffering they were enduring was nothing compared to what was coming when the son of perdition would be revealed. The fact remains that the Thessalonian believers were not troubled because they believed the Lord was coming for them and their resurrected loved ones. They were troubled because they thought it had not happened as expected and that instead they had entered into the Tribulation Period.

Lastly, we come to verses 6, 7 & 8 of 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2. Verse 6 is a fascinating and revealing cryptic message for our time. The Thessalonians understood what and whom Paul was speaking of as the "restrainer" of the Anti-Christ in verse 7, but we are left to apply ourselves to deductive reasoning. Paul writes, "And you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work: only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."

Theories as to the identity of this restraining "what" and "who" include: world government, the Archangel Michael, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Church. The language of the text conclusively supports that the identity of this mysterious entity described both in neutered impersonal and also personal terms, is in fact the Holy Spirit indwelt Church. Only the Spirit-filled Church fits this unique description of both an impersonal principle or power capable of manifesting itself under a personal form as a male individual in its unique identification as "the Body of Christ." (Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 10:17 & 12:27). Ephesians 1:13-14 gives irrefutable proof that even if the Holy Spirit were to ever be removed as the Restrainer, the Church would still have to be removed also. All other choices presented other than the Holy Spirit within the Church fail to fulfill the personal/impersonal description of the Restrainer. Jesus, Michael and the Holy Spirit are not "whats" and world government is not a "He."

Again, Paul’s reassurance that the Church must be removed before the Anti-Christ can make his appearance, as described in Revelation 6:1-2 & Daniel 9:27 is solidified and harmonizes with Paul’s original intention. Clear and sound exposition demands one to recognize that Paul was consistent in his purpose and sequence to alleviate what was troubling the Church when he wrote to them in Chapter 2 of II Thessalonians. He first assured them in verses 1 & 2 that they had not misunderstood the promise of the Rapture and refutes the false idea that they were entering the Tribulation Period. In verse 3 he reassures them that the Tribulation Period will not take place until after the great apostasy within and without the Church comes to fruition and the Anti-Christ is revealed. In verses 6-8, Paul sums up his offer of comfort by again emphasizing that an entity is holding back the Anti-Christ from making his appearance (an entity which they are aware of) and that entity must be taken out of the way first before the great day of the Lord can start.

We believe that we are living at the threshold of the Rapture and the start of the Tribulation Period and that an example of love between those who hold to different views as to the Rapture’s timing, at this point, would demonstrate a sober wisdom in the Lord. We are confident that the sequential teaching we have shared verifies the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the teaching of Scripture and will be proven correct in the very near future.

Are you ready to meet the Lord in the Rapture or if He should call you home this day? Believe in the atoning blood sacrifice of the Living Lord Jesus Christ this moment for the forgiveness of your sins and thou shalt be saved.


_________________
Daniel

 2006/11/9 13:14Profile
NLONG
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 111
Middlebury, Indiana

 Re:

:|


_________________
Neil Long

 2006/11/9 14:20Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy