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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 30
Elmira, NY


A good look at biblical repentance might shed some light on some missing components in this pursuit of revival.

Could it be that in the past the depths of cultural sin and rejection of God were on a level that it only took some intercessory digging to burst a pipe in the heart of God and cause Him to rush down the corridors of heaven to the desperate please of His people below?

Could it be that the depth of the sin today, is so great that something more than prayer is required?

Jesus said add fasting to prayer for certain demons, He there by letting us know that there are cetain heavenly formulas that when obeyed result in the desired effect?

Could it be that the church has drifted so far and that the mass of accepted sin is so wide and so deep and so ingrained that the formula is other than before? prayer + .......= revival

Could it be that the Lord has already turned His back and has begun His meltdown to Divine fury, as He seeths and boils in His righteous anger and is on the verge of unleashing what is deserved upon this wicked world?

Could it be that He requires something else in order for Him to turn His face towards us again?

When was did you last hear a sermon on repentance and sackcloth? What pathetic cowardly excuse was given about how sackcloth is not for today, it is not fashionable. Dont you just hate it, "It is not for today, that is how God worked a long time ago when men were so primitive and ignorant. Today we do not need sackcloth we have Versace, we have Armani, we have Levi's It does not have the same effect because our cultures are different and we are enlightened........."

Pull your hair out and scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O dear here we go again ,the cry of the streets, the weeping and the wailing in the market place. The public square is where God will probably meet us to see if we are really sick of sin and grieved as He is grieved. Imagine that, He waits for us in the streets where He was crucified and we keep looking for Him else where.....? Interesting that if you read your bible you will notice that when godly men were really sick of sin they dressed themselves in some burlap and found a place to sit infront of everyone to let them know how grieved they were at sin. Then they poured some ash on their heads and wept.....

Could it be that this is the price folks?

Who is prepared to pay it?

Below are some scriptures on the subject. We know how the 'old' testament saints used to adorn themselves when their hearts were crushed at the wickedness around them.

We can see that even Ninevah got the idea eventually....

And then Jesus paints us a picture of repentance.

And then at the end of the age, sackcloth is still in fashion and one of God's servants prefered garments in times of great woe. That by the way is still future so we can conclude that if it is good enough for God and for some really die hard saints it should be good enough for us!

Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that [is] in their hands.

Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Julian Raven

Julian Raven

 2006/11/6 17:48Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37226
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Who is prepared to pay it?

If we simply meditate upon this phrase and consider the true blatent fact that we do not want to pay the cost for revival. For most of us by the way we live our life says that we do not see a revival of religion as the utmost need of the Church or our Christian lifes.

We are slow to pray, and therefore we are slow in seeing revival come.

we are content to live without it.

As Ravenhill said: "I am sick of reading about revival, I am tired of writing about revival, I want to see it."

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/11/6 19:21Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


"The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant. For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the Lord is not turned back from us." -Jeremiah 4:8

"The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth." Ecclesiastes 7:4

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/11/6 19:27Profile

Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 30
Elmira, NY


I just had dinner and shared with my dear wife about this post and we further delved into what this might mean for us.....
We pondered the awesome thought, can you imagine east to west, north to south, multitudes of believers weeping and mourning in the streets, clothed in burlap and covered in ashes. As one great thread lately reminded us of the puritan prayer for the 'gift of tears' we need to be clothed in tears. We need to be fasted and praying and enveloped in sackcloth and ashes.
Maybe this will be what separates the men from the boys and as with Gideon we will see a fearless few who are prepared to pay the price and win the battle.
We have seen enough protests and marches. Enough politicking, enough fleshly mechanics, enough soothing words, enough sensual fuzzies, enough bumbling and far too little weeping and agony. If the condition is as bad as it appears to be then what is wrong with us? Where is the God of Elijah???
How much do we love God?
How jealous for His name are we?
How much do we love sinners?
Do we really believe what we believe?
Do we really believe what we claim to believe?
Do we really, really, really believe what we claim to believe, that men who die in their sins will be forever tormented in hell, in hell, in hell, in hell?
Do we really believe that we have the words of eternal life?
Do we really belive that God exists at all?

We wondered why we find few believers in public in this land of freedom and we remebered they were on a cruise somewhere, of course. They are hangin out with Jezuz, wooping it up in the Bahamas and doin a little soakin up the sunz rayz!!! :-(

Father, please, might we not miss you and this door of opportunity we have before you. Lord could it be that you are using this site to assemble a hidden army of saints who will pay the price? Could it be Lord that within our reach lies the answers to our deepest yearnings and prayers? Galvanize us in your Holy Spirit and prepare us, for we will go for you, we will stand for you.We will obey you! In Jesus name! Amen!

Julian Raven

 2006/11/6 20:20Profile

Joined: 2006/11/6
Posts: 12


"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings" (Jer 4:4, KJV)

Right before Jeremiah declares and publishes the Word of the Lord to go and hide in the defenced cities, there is even one last plea: "Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns. Circumsize yourselves to the Lord...".

Seperate yourselves to me in purity. For Judah has not turned back to me whole heartely (Jer 3:10); and they have dealt treacherously with me (3:20); and have perverted their way; and forgotton God (3:21).

I think this is a picture of where we are as a nation: The last stages before the fury of God comes upon this nation. God has chastened, warned, and pleaded; We not only have refused him, but we have despised his chastening. [u]So I am convinced that we will only consider sackclothe in the midst of a Righteous Judgement of God poured out in this nation; just as it was in Jeremiah's day. The Lord pleaded, but they would not Return and Repent. And so it is with us. What else could stir us? What shall convince us to leave our false comforts and idolatrous ways? And receive the life abundantly hidden in Christ![/u].

We see a swift transition from God calling Israel/Judah to return, acknowledge your iniquity to, HIDE AND LIE IN SACKCLOTHE FOR THE LORD WILL NOT TURN AWAY HIS FURY, EVEN HIS FIERCE ANGER.

"For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the LORD is not turned back from us." (Jer 4:8)


Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah. As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the LORD. Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart. (Jer 4:16-18)

Perhaps, this will turn out to be more true than we could imagine. I hope not, but GOD IS HOLY. And we deserve it. Nevertheless, God have mercy!

...yet will I not make a full end.(Jer 4:27).

If our sackclothe will only come in God's sovereign judgement, then let it come if there be no other way. But I am convinced it is the only way for a people who are stiffnecked and rebellious, who have enjoyed the favor and blessings of God, but have forgotten Him. May he then find genuine faith in this land, that does not produce diseased fruit, or rotten, or seed sown among thorns. But fruit that has the qualitative substance desired by our LORD, and required of if we are to bear his name. If we will not break up our follow ground...perhaps he will have no trouble tilling His garden.

Lord, at any any road; Have a remnant Bride, radiant and glorious, who love your appearing, and who will Overcome through your great sacrifice, even your blood poured out Jesus. Be glorified.

 2006/11/7 5:33Profile

Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 30
Elmira, NY


Winthrup, Blessings!

My thinking of late has been to try and determine where we are in this process of heardening.(2Tim3) May the Lord show us just how far gone we are. It seems that many of the revivals in the past came when there was just a cold apathy in the culture towards God. Today we see a tolerated satanically enegized militancy, a true anti- Christ spirit spewing its hatred in ways that have never been except maybe in the days of Nero etc. I think of the blatant hatred that is manifested towards Pres. Bush, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing and this country has always thrived on discourse and the clashing of ideas. Now though there is no resepct for the Nation, for the office, for any of the institutions of this land. The church being one, so I take that attitude and extrapulate it and project that if it is allowed to embolden itself in a few years its hatred will no longer be manifest in words alone. No longer will mockery at Christians be enough, some will begin to dare to touch us physically to see how far they can go and to see what they can get away with. It will probably start with tar and feathers and then beatings and this will probably engergize mass martydoms in the final days? The standards of decency have disappeared. The picture in my mind yesterday was that it was easier to dig up the fallow ground before, could it be that the ground now is no longer ploughable? I think this is the case in the culture? There is such blatant animosity, such a seething hatred under the breath of many public figures as well as many folks especially on the east and west coasts. But again there is hope in the sleeping mass of bodies that lie between the east and west coasts that if revived will over come the relative minority of God haters. It might not be worse than it appears because like the little horn in Daniel 7, it sounds louder than it really is. As with the militant homosexuals they are so few in number and yet with legal and media backing they appear to be giants, the church quakes at the voice of that one particular spirit! Lord raise up the spirit of David!!!!
We know that most of the evil is perceived by the magnification through the media, the tv, the internet, the music, the radio, news papers and hollywood. It is that perception that is trying to convince people that there is no hope and that we have gone beyond the place of no return.(Your post)
There is still hope though, because the hand of God is still raised, it is as if He is frozen in that posture, right on the cusp of releasing the fury of the Lord. Could it be that as He continually restrains Himself He is waiting for those ingreedients to come together which will stay His hand? God's longsuffering and patience is not without limit but it is still extremely long.......

Could it be that fasting, prayer and sackcloth and ashes in the public square will do it? This not just once, but continually until we see God move?
Imagine all of those superstar leaderers in sackcloth? it is quite a humorous image(not intended for the subject is of great severity) but it seems to magnify in them how far they are from God, it is as if it is unthinkable that they would ever wear sackcloth? Imagine Benny Hinn in sackcloth? That seems revolting?
Who can you imagine wearing sackcloth taday? Who does it fit? This might indicate to us that there are some leaders out there who are actually willing to pay the price?
This is a good test! God give us insight!
At the end of the day as usual it will be the no-bodies who will go.....
Julian Raven

Julian Raven

 2006/11/7 9:34Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


Hi Jewalz,

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

I think you are on to something here. Sackloth was a symbol of utter humility before God. Notice, again, that it was the two witnesses that had the sackloth on. They brought a tremendous word, but it was clothed in the garment of absolute humility. Humility only comes when we see ourselves in the light of God's glory. You don't have to put on a false humility when the glory comes- its is automatic. Like the Cheribim that cover their eyes before the Lord there has to come a deep seated life changing revelation of who we are in light of who God is.

Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/7 11:11Profile

Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 30
Elmira, NY

 Re: The two witnesses...

Robert, God bless you!

The ultimate end of the believer is no different to that of Christ. This world hates Him it will hate us the same and eventually treat us the same. The ultimate end of the church in the world until the rapture is martyrdom. These subjects make our flesh cringe and sweat and yet the deeper into the death of Christ that we delve the greater the peace we have in the face of the present reality that at any given time the enemies of the cross can suddenly turn upon the Bride and devour her. The confortianity of America is so deep rooted that these topics are like contemplating astro physics for the average farmer. We do not like them in our flesh and yet the more that we grow in Him the more the yearning for the life to come grows and the more the reality of what this faith is about becomes all the more clearer.
I get the sense that you saw the sackcloth as more symbolic of humility. I believe it is a necessary physical demonstration of total self abasement and humiliation that smacks this wicked world so hard that all it can do is rage in a frenzy of utter hatred until the beares of the message and the wearers of the burlap are forever done away with. Again I believe that this is a price that has always been paid by God's servants who do not love this life at all, not in the slightest and who are ready to obey until the death.
What is clear again from this passage is that they end up dead on the 'streets' and again I hear the call of the highways and byways. The call of the market place beckons those who will go knowing that they might not come back, it is the final frontier for the believer and it is the realm that needs to be captured if we are to see revival.
As with all cirtical elements of our faith, the devil is astute in rendering them ineffective. In our culture it is so easy because of the superfucial nature of it, it is rediculous for most Christians to consider this even on this site, it is foreign, it is bizarre, it is uncomfotable, it is idiotic even and yet above all things it is biblical, supported by multitudes of verses all through our scripture even until the last and final chapter of this world. It is probaly the less preached upon subject and yet there are suffiecient verses to not just build a basic teaching but a whole doctrine!
Why not don the robes of grief in the light of our present situation?
What good reasons could there be to not repenting in sackcloth and ashes?

Julian Raven

Julian Raven

 2006/11/7 14:58Profile

Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 600
Monroe, LA - USA


Michael Strickland

 2011/3/25 11:48Profile

Joined: 2011/3/10
Posts: 33


Brothers, would you please discuss this with me?

Are we to think that revival will never come unless we seriously consider and put into effect wearing sackcloth and dusting ourselves with ashes?

Do we seriously think that becoming contrite and breaking down with sackcloth and ashes is the next "step"? (I don't want to make it sound like WE'RE the ones bringing revival, not that God doesn't answer our prayers, that's for a different discussion though.)

I want God more than anything, and I don't doubt that weeping in sackcloth is something that would be seen as incredible when that's exactly what people did in the Old Testament because of their knowledge of the Almighty--do we really think this would be the right path?

Will revival come with or without sackcloth? That question may have a complicated answer.

 2011/3/25 23:33Profile

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