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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A Question for Arminians

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GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

1 John 3:6
"Whoever (practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."
This is the clear interpretation of this verse.

The questions posed are interesting and the other verses that people are pointing to are not refuting preserverance of the saints.

Why I started this post was for an answer to this verse which clearly states that if you're living in sin you are lost and have never been saved. Logically concluding to the doctrine of the perserverance of the saints.

Are there any refutations to THIS very verse?
Is there an answer to this verse or are all Christians to be subject to this verse and the doctrine which arises from it?

WHAT ABOUT THIS VERSE?


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Kristy

 2006/11/15 9:29Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

GraceAlone wrote:
1 John 3:6
"Whoever (practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."



I agree real christians do not sin everyday.

What is interesting to me is that many(not all) who believe that a Christian can not fall away, also believe that a Christian can not stop sinning.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/11/15 11:38Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

PreachParsly wrote:
Quote:

GraceAlone wrote:
1 John 3:6
"Whoever (practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."



I agree real christians do not sin everyday.

What is interesting to me is that many(not all) who believe that a Christian can not fall away, also believe that a Christian can not stop sinning.


The Greek word for "sins" here is "preasent active" which means, sinning and keeps on sinning"

The christian may sin, but because of Eternal(John 17:3) life, he stops through the love for Christ.
The unsaved will not stop because he has no reason to.

Furthermore, to know Him is Eternal life(John 17:3). Therefore, if one has not Eternal life, he sins and keeps on sinning, .

 2006/11/15 12:04Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
The Greek word for "sins" here is "preasent active" which means, sinning and keeps on sinning"

The christian may sin, but because of Eternal(John 17:3) life, he stops through the love for Christ.
The unsaved will not stop because he has no reason to.

Furthermore, to know Him is Eternal life(John 17:3). Therefore, if one has not Eternal life, he sins and keeps on sinning, .



Amen


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Josh Parsley

 2006/11/15 12:11Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

I say that so far nobody has been able to refute this verse and I'm lead to believe that because this verse has been irrefutable... The doctrine of the perserverance of the saints is true.

1 John 3:6 (Heres a better interpretation.)
"Whoever (habitually practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."



Are there any refutations to THIS very verse?
Is there an answer to this verse or are all Christians to be subject to this verse and the doctrine which arises from it?

WHAT ABOUT THIS VERSE?

Mabey we should change History to the four points of calvinism...lol


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Kristy

 2006/11/15 16:17Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Quote:

GraceAlone wrote:
I say that so far nobody has been able to refute this verse and I'm lead to believe that because this verse has been irrefutable... The doctrine of the perserverance of the saints is true.

1 John 3:6 (Heres a better interpretation.)
"Whoever (habitually practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."



Are there any refutations to THIS very verse?
Is there an answer to this verse or are all Christians to be subject to this verse and the doctrine which arises from it?

WHAT ABOUT THIS VERSE?

Mabey we should change History to the four points of calvinism...lol



I'm sorry to bring this up again but I'm actually very curious to what the response to this verse is... :-(


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Kristy

 2006/12/27 16:42Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.

This is before this statement; 1 John 3:2-3 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

If we believe we are son's of God, this makes the ones that believe, pure as He is pure.

In being pure, what makes us pure? What makes a son? Christ is pure and the only One that can make us pure. He is also the only Begotten Son, so how can we be son's also? We are back to being born again, born again of Incorruptable Seed. We must have a new Father to be a new creature. God the Father has placed by the Holy Spirit the Same Seed of the Christ that was placed in Mary, and that makes us New Birthed children (son's) of God. As a Son Jesus did not sin, and that Seed in us does not sin, making us in spirit as Mary in Spirit conceived and a special body prepared by God was brought forth and His Name is Jesus. The Seed has been brought forth in us and my name is Phillip Christ. I am not as Christ, as the lie of the devil tempted Adam. Christians are Christ Ones, who were first called this in Antioch. All the Body of Christ are Christs'. We are His wife. We have His Name, Christ. By the Seed of God the Father we are born again son's, This is the mystery Paul speaks about a number of times. Paul uses the "Mystery" as the same meaning of Born Again. "now are we the son's of God"

Jesus Cannot sin and is pure, we have the same hope and cannot sin as we used to, if we do sin we have an Advocate with the Father.

1 John 3:5-7 And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. Why is God faithful and just to forgive us our sins? Not because we confess but because Christ is in us. By confession there is not condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.

Satan wants to keep this truth from us so we do the works of our father's to attain our salvation. Still the lie, we as god's can make God happy by our works and our making ourselves like Jesus, hence; What would Jesus do? We must do the same, then God will be happy with us. Wrong! We are new creatures in Christ and we are perfect because He is perfect, a new creation race of people, son's of the Living God and because of Christ in us we cannot sin, that is why we must plant this corruptible seed in the Ground and will bring forth much fruit in the Father's House as son's of the living God.

The scripture is plain we cannot sin because we are son's and Christ is the Seed of the Father that is birthed in us. Praise God, He has revealed this mystery to us. This truly does fulfill the Word of God.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Are we perfect? Are we pure? Are we living in Christ and without sin to our Father?

Praise God, Jhn 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Phl 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

In all things by the Christ in me, I give praise and dominion to Jesus Christ who is my Life by whom I live in His Faith.

Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/28 0:20Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 thinking out loud

I wonder what the progression was in consecration toward sanctification in the lives of the disciples of our Lord Jesus'? It might be an interesting place to start. :-)


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D.Miller

 2006/12/28 8:22Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

This is clearly saying that if you live in sin you are lost and have always been lost..

1 John 3:6 (Heres a better interpretation.)
"Whoever (habitually practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."


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Kristy

 2007/1/8 9:57Profile





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