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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The 50-YEAR CYCLE of AWAKENINGS in AMERICA - URGENT!!

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dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Localized? Prehaps. I don't believe America will see a national revival, that's my opinion, not from the Lord, however, the generation of young folks from ages 20's downward will see revival or experience the Lord's presence in thier lives in a way that few have through all of christian history . They won't have the hang ups to move spontenously in a public forum that seem to keep most bound at present. They'll be an army of christian workers in all of life full of the grace and love of Christ. And they'll be very effective since they won't be directly promoting anything, but they will be giving Jesus. In communicating Him they will be very effective.


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D.Miller

 2006/11/7 4:37Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

When the Fire fell in the upper room 120 people turned the world upside down. Phillip was a one man revival when he went into Samaria. Fire spreads. Fire is contagous. We have to have the fire or we cannot do our jobs as a kingdom of priests.

Where's the fire? Where's the fire that is kindled from heaven? When David built the altar and filled it at Ornan's threshing floor God answered by FIRE. When Solomon bowed on the brass scaffold on his knees with his hands raised praising the mercy and goodness of God, beseeching Him to remember His promises, the FIRE fell upon the altar and consumed the sacrifice. The fire does not fall when we assert our goodness, it falls when we acknowledge [u]His[/u] goodness.

I wonder sometimes if the singing and 'worship' I have been a part of is not much more than a heartless mockery. Folk can praise God because He healed their body, gave them a job, or any other thing- but how often have you heard someone stand up and begin to wrecklessly honor and thank the Lord for His mercy and grace? David should have been dead. His kids should have been dead. The people should have been dead. The disciples forsook the Lord and should have been dead and damned, but the hand of judgment was again stayed on Mount Moriah and the FIRE fell in the upper room to consume the living sacrificial lives of the 120 (Romans 12:1).

The Lord near pulled the candlestick of Ephesus. Why? What need is there of a candlestick if the fire goes out on it? The people needed to REPENT. But repent of what? They had left their first love. How? Why? They had forgotten where they came from and left their love for Christ. We love Him because He first loved us. those who were forgiven of much, loveth much. We have all been forgiven of much and ought to [i]love much[/i]. If we connect the dots here the people needed to repent for having forgotten what the Lord had done for them. No love- no FIRE.

Why don't we see God come down? I have heard Ravenhill beg God to rend the heavens and come down. Finney said God would come if we employed [i]means[/i]. Why has revival tarried? Could it be because we refuse to say as did that great Prophet Isaiah, "Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips"? Not- God revive this people or God revive someone else. Not God this people is wretched and you know I am righteous. [i]Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips...[/i] FIRST and the people second.

I have seen it happen on a local level. In early 2004 our church came together when the Pastor was out of town (as the wife was sorely ill [ed.]) and began to cry out to God for our wretched estate. I ran an add in the KC Star declaring my repentance and guilt before God. I have the article to this day. In a period of less than 3 weeks we baptized 30 odd people who came to repent before God and openly and publically acknowledge that they has sinned against the Lord. And as soon as the folk came in who 'had no sin' the fire STOPPED. End of story. Lock the door- its OVER. As soon as the game face returned- the fire departed. I'm just keeping it real here. I believe and God is witness that had we continued in what God was doing revival may have well spread throughout the city. Churches were coming as far as Belton MO. to see what God was doing. Some, when they saw folk publically declaring their wretchedness (not the details- but an acknowledgement of their estate) they 'backed off' and went back to their Purpose Driven Life classes. But there was a great remnant that longed for the FIRE. I have seen what this kind of revival looks like. I have seen folk repenting before God. But it started with the leaders. It started when I said "WOE is me for I am undone!!!" Who are we trying to impress with our sinlessness? WOE is me! WOE is me. When the glory of God comes down thats all you can say... WOE is me... WOE is me... WOE is me...


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/7 8:29Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: His Conditions? ...


Brother Robert wrote;
"Prayer is certainly vital, but I have been wondering of late if there may be some other reason why we have not seen revival. A LOT of prayer has gone up from a LOT of people and still revival tarries. The pattern in the Old Testament is that the FIRE fell once the sacrifice was placed on the altar and the 'conditions' were met."


Brother Robert's phrase "the conditions were met" just screams at me ... I often think what if Church leadership, our pastors/preachers/teachers/under-shepherds, with just even the same intensity as they have for their own agendas, suddenly came to the realization of the following of our Lord's agenda ...

Joel.1
[13] Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

Joel.2
[17] Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
[18] Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
[19] Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
[23] Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
[24] And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.
[25] And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
[26] And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
[32] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:

What if Church leadership, our pastors/preachers/teachers/under-shepherds, with just even the same intensity as they have for their own agendas, suddenly came to the realization of the following of our Lord's agenda ... earnestly falling on their faces, seeking heaven till they heard from God? ...

In my own church assignment due to lossing members to other churches and so much grumbling amongst the remainder of the congregation pastor decided to ask for anonymous questions to find out just what was on the peoples minds ... Man did he get more than he bargained for, and some of his retorts came across way less than loving ...

There were questions about his salary and what was going on with the money (both of which at one time was revealed), why so many church programs and why do they cost so much, why so many offering takings? ... Then came the heavy hitting questions: Could we please relegate most of the lengthy announcements to the church bulletin so we could have more time in worship, could we please cut out some of the more entertainment oriented parts of the Sunday morning program so that we could have more time to worship, could we please place more emphasis on Bible Study and less on money making agendas, why is known sin amongst the ministerial staff hushed up and/or tolerated, and then came the loaded questions as to why we were no longer being LED by the man God put in charge in weekly and all night prayer service(s) ...

I'm not judging, just commenting on my observation, and it's this, pastor-like so many other pastors has so much going on until he/they don't have time for devoting his/their time to so much praying ... I see such prayer time delegated to the leadership of others, and that's ok, but there was a time, before he got so busy with other things, when the man in charge oversaw what we did ...

i think of what Ravenhill said in regards to REVIVAL, "No man has to advertise a fire" ... As unlikely as it seems now in my assignment i truly believe God is slowly but surely manuvering things to the point of eventually putting pastor and ministerial staff weeping on the floor between porch and altar toward their renewed leadership toward his agenda ... The old Moses type leading out of the wilderness days are gone, and the new Joshua type leading into the conquering of the promised land (bringing in the last sheaves) is upon us ... The only thing that's missing is the power of the Holy Ghost (REVIVAL) in which to go forth and conquer, and i don't believe we'll get that until His conditions are re-met - a re-turn to our first love and re-pentance towards doing the first works ...

Lord Jesus, by Your Spirit, i pray that we (especially Your leaders) heed Your counsel to buy Your gold tried in the fire, that we mayest be rich; and white raiment, that we mayest be clothed, and that the shame of our present nakedness do not appear; and anoint our eyes with Your eyesalve, that we mayest see ... Amen

 2006/11/7 11:13Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: One Burning Coal to Ignite Many ...



Bro Strom wrote;
"What we need is one place with a breakthrough."

Bro Daryl wrote;
"It'll only take one person to start the awakening but that one person will have had to intercede through and die to self through 3 of America's main idols (strong men)."


i agree with both as scripture is full of instances where our Lord took one and multiplied his message/vision into many ... i totally concur with Ravenhill's statement of "One man with God is a majority".

If in fact our Lord does what i've been believing He's said/saying to me for so long i truly shall be a witness to both these statements ... And as i've said to many if He proves me live and not Memorex, only He will be able to shut me up from then on! ... :-P

 2006/11/7 11:15Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Rahman,

Quote:
Brother Robert's phrase "the conditions were met" just screams at me ... I often think what if Church leadership, our pastors/preachers/teachers/under-shepherds, with just even the same intensity as they have for their own agendas, suddenly came to the realization of the following of our Lord's agenda ...



Sunday I spoke on this issue of David numbering Israel. It's not popular to see the implications of that historical event. David 'numbered' the people and the people were in iniquity. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Me, me, me, me, what I have done, I have done, I have done. Where was God in all this? So to in our times. Is it not about how vast the 'kingdoms' of men and their 'ministries' are? Has it not become about how programs are as the 'valiant' men without number can get the job done? What about the pillar of fire that LED the people?

What about seeking God for direction for HIS work? I believe the judgment that fell on the people and David was the expression of God's attitude on our goings on to build ourselves and do 'our' work. David saw it and repented. He built an altar and the FIRE fell. ;-)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/7 11:53Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:

Where's the fire? Where's the fire that is kindled from heaven? When David built the altar and filled it at Ornan's threshing floor God answered by FIRE. When Solomon bowed on the brass scaffold on his knees with his hands raised praising the mercy and goodness of God, beseeching Him to remember His promises, the FIRE fell upon the altar and consumed the sacrifice. The fire does not fall when we assert our goodness, it falls when we acknowledge [u]His[/u] goodness.

Why has revival tarried? Could it be because we refuse to say as did that great Prophet Isaiah, "Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips"? Not- God revive this people or God revive someone else. Not God this people is wretched and you know I am righteous. [i]Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips...[/i] FIRST and the people second.

But it started with the leaders. It started when I said "WOE is me for I am undone!!!" Who are we trying to impress with our sinlessness? WOE is me! WOE is me. When the glory of God comes down thats all you can say... WOE is me... WOE is me... WOE is me...



Amen, Mr. Wurtz... Amen! This is a MUST.


**What are everyone's thoughts on each one of us coming together once, twice, three times, or more a year and seeking for this? I think this is a great forum - a great place to meet and discuss, but what if we gathered together for intense prayer, encouragment, and listening to God? Thoughts?

 2006/11/7 11:57Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I think this is a great forum - a great place to meet and discuss, but what if we gathered together for intense prayer, encouragment, and listening to God? Thoughts?



I have been priveledged to be in ministry and prayer meetings with some of the brethren on this site and it has been life changing. The Lord has opened doors for it to happen and it has always been a blessing. As we pray about it the Lord will direct us and guide our steps. He is faithful! Praise His name forever. These men really want to see God move. No better company to be in than that. ;-)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/7 13:02Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Raman's:

Quote:
I'm not judging, just commenting on my observation, and it's this, pastor-like so many other pastors has so much going on until he/they don't have time for devoting his/their time to so much praying ... I see such prayer time delegated to the leadership of others, and that's ok, but there was a time, before he got so busy with other things, when the man in charge oversaw what we did ...



Our church and organization just called a time of "50 Days of Pentecost." We fasted one day a wekk and other things seeking for a move of God. Our pastor tells stories about how Ravenhills Book "Why Revival Terries" brought REVIVAL to the organization in the 1960's. Many ministers came out of that revival that are still in ministry today. We need some of the 'old timers' who have been around 50 years as Andrew's article points out to step up and cry out for a fresh move of God! And were seeing it happen. God is moving in our churches and among our pastors. We have been watching Ray Comfort videos in many of our youth meetings. God is challinging us to rediscover what it means to be saved. God is stirring ministers and the people!


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/7 13:12Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


Doc (Pastor Robert) ya preachin man!!! :-P

i hear many a preacher in lip service talk about the awesome responsibility they have in God's placing them over a portion of His flock, but as my dear ole Mom always says "action speaks louder than words" ... Seems to me that much of the problem in todays Church is that the leadership has forgotten who they truly work for, and this lapse puts us all in danger once our Lord has had enuf and begins reminding ...

Another problem we have in the Body is that just like in politics now-a-days we got a whole lotta baby-boomer men in power, and without proper understanding and restraint that extreme self gratifying generational curse we've all been touched by makes it much easier for us to get to far ahead of God ...

In analogy i see it like so, we want whatever from God like a anytime teller, we want His blessings but we don't want to have to meet Him face to face to obtain them ... But He says no I want you to contine to come before Me, at my Bank, fill our all My paperwork, cross every "t" and dot every "i", you know - meet My full conditions for a withdrawal of power from Me ... But hey we ain't got time for that, we want from God what we want now and lingering before His face just ain't cuttin it, we gotta be movin and shakin it like the other guys and we all know how slow God appears to be, so instead we go to another way to meet our agenda by either bending scripture or just outright rebellion, and so we seek the "loan-shark" if you will (and we all know who he is), and we then proceed to build on those ill gotten borrowed resources until it all begins to come down around our ears when we can't meet the ridiculous interest payments (this works both financially and spiritually) the loan shark demands ...

This is where i think America as a Church and nation has come to ... With
the tumbling down of our false walls, with the loan-shark threathining to break our legs or worse, is what i believe will bring re-actively bring Church leadership and laity on our faces crying out to God for help!!! ... And the most mind blowing thing of this whole scenario is that as soon as we begin in earnest to cry out, asking His forgiveness for branching out into our own agendas with the preaching of another gospel, He'll forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, and re-set us upon our pure path of first love, first works ...


These are some quotes from your posts that really stand out for me;


Quote:
"I seriously wonder if we realize that it was David's revelation of the enormity of his sin as a leader that ultimately brought on the building of the altar, the purchase of Ornan's threshing floor and the eventual construction of the Temple."

Quote:
"It is here that David gets a revelation of how bad his sin is and how merciful God is. He was the leader and he sinned. he did not cover it up and he did not call it a mistake. He did not hide behind anything- he stepped out and took responsibility for what he had done. He humbled himself as a sinner before God and praised and thanked God for His mercy."


What would happen if todays Church leaders (in America) had a similar realization and subsequent reaction?


Quote;
"Men don't see revival when they look up to heaven and declare their perfection before Him. Men see God move when they say, "Woe is me for I am undone I am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips." It is then when God says- "Who will go for Us?" and it is then that we can declare, "Here am I SEND me." There will never be revival until we see our lost and lowly estate before God. Not just the sinners in the streets and the churches- but US, but ME, MYSELF and I.


Amen ... But right now i think still to many in Church leadership are still self deluded that all their empire building (perspiration) is of God (inspiration), and therefore see themselves as rich and in need of nothing.


Quote;
"In early 2004 our church came together when the Pastor was out of town and began to cry out to God for our wretched estate. I ran an add in the KC Star declaring my repentance and guilt before God. I have the article to this day. In a period of less than 3 weeks we baptized 30 odd people who came to repent before God and openly and publically acknowledge that they has sinned against the Lord. And as soon as the folk came in who 'had no sin' the fire STOPPED. End of story. Lock the door- its OVER. As soon as the game face returned- the fire departed. I'm just keeping it real here."


We have something similar going on in my assignment, whereas it is said much how Holy Spirit seems to really only light us up when our Bishop is away, and then upon his return it's back to the program as usual ... This makes me tremble for our man in charge, and is why i constantly keep him in prayer.


Quote;
"What about seeking God for direction for HIS work? I believe the judgment that fell on the people and David was the expression of God's attitude on our goings on to build ourselves and do 'our' work. David saw it and repented. He built an altar and the FIRE fell."


i think leadership is a very important element in this REVIVAL that i believe is soon to show itself upon us ... God is a God of order and decency, i know even in what i believe to be my calling it does not surpass or surmount that of His annointed, my pastor ... i can come to him with what i believe is a word from our Lord, but that's all i can do except continuously pray that if our communing is in fact of our Lord's plan that He bring it to fruition ...

In the meanwhile i'm praying hard that God will give someone, if not all in leadership, a new Damascus Road experience, for God knows we in the pews surely need pastors with His heart ... Amen

 2006/11/7 13:21Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Lead as He Leads You/Us! ...



Bro (Pastor) Robert wrote;
"God is stirring ministers and the people!"

Bro i'm encouraged by what i hear Him doing in you ... Keep bustin!!! :-D

 2006/11/7 13:23Profile





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