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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Chronology of End Time Events

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Eli_Barnabas
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Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Chronology of End Time Events

This is in response to a request asking me to write out a chronology of end time events:

Generally I don't like charts and timelines, because the Bible simply does not give us enough information to create a nice neat set of events. I hold doggedly to the rule that we must only teach exactly what is reaveled in Scripture and no more, even if there are gaps and grey areas. Most Scriptural error comes from men speculating and trying to fill in the holes with their own assumptions. I can tell you in summary what the Bible says:


-the last days began on the Day of Pentecost when the Spirit of God was poured out upon the believers. (Acts 2:16-21)

-from that moment until the return of Messiah there shall be birth pangs, becoming more and more frequent and intensified as we draw closer to the end (Matthew 24:8). In the days immediately prior to the appearing of Christ, the pressure will be at it's greatest; Jesus referred to this as [i]megas thlipsis[/i], "big pressure", or as it is commonly known: great tribulation.

-it is prophesied that a Wicked One shall be revealed in the last seven years before Jesus Christ returns, the antichrist, who will set himself up as God, with the assistance of a false prophet, and will make war with the saints and prevail against them (Daniel 7:21, Revelation 13:7). There will be a great apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:3) and the true believers will be hunted and killed. Sons will betray fathers, and daughters their own mothers... true Christians will be handed over to stand on trial before kings and rulers (Luke 21:12-13). In this way will the Bride of Christ be refined and the gospel will be preached throughout all the world.

-this seven year period is divided into two halves: the first time, times and a half (three and half years) will the antichrist establish a false peace with Israel and rebuild the temple. Then will happen what is called the abomination which causes desolation, when this man of sin sets himself up as God in the temple and reveals his true wickedness (Matthew 24:15). Many will be deceived into worshipping the beast and his image. This event ushers in the final three and a half years. [i]"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." [/i](Matthew 24:21-22)

-[i]"[b]Immediately after the tribulation of those days [/b]shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [b]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.[/b]" [/i](Matthew 24:29-31) This is as clear as it gets. Immediately following the tribulation of those days shall Jesus Christ gloriously return in power upon the clouds and shall gather the elect from earth to be with Him forever (John 14:1-3, 2 Thessalonians 2:1)! The rapture, meaning the catching up of the saints, takes place when Jesus Christ bodily returns to earth the second and final time: [i]"For the Lord himself shall [b]descend [/b]from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be [b]caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air[/b]: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." [/i](1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

-After meeting Him in the air shall we all descend upon the Mount of Olives, where the feet of the King shall land with a great earthquake, splitting the mountain in two (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11). The Lord shall smite the nations and make war, consuming antichrist and his armies with the "spirit of his mouth and the brightness of his coming." (2 Thessalonians 2:8) [i]"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."[/i] (Revelation 19:15)

-Jesus Christ shall establish upon this earth His millenial Kingdom, where the saints of God shall rule and reign with Him for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4) During this time the devil is bound.

-At the end of the thousand years, the devil will be loosed for a little season to deceive the nations and rally the armies against Jerusalem one last time (Ezekiel 38-39, Revelation 20:7-9). The Lord shall utterly destroy them and cast that old serpent into the Lake of Fire.

-Then follows the second resurrection, when the earth and sea give up their dead, and all men will stand before the white throne of judgment. [i]"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."[/i] (Revelation 20:11-15). The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

-Last and best of all, the Lord shall make a new heaven and a new earth, old things will all pass away (Revelation 21:1). Then shall the Bride be joined to her Christ, and so shall we live forever with Him, our God! [i]"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." [/i](Revelation 21:3)

Amen! Come Lord Jesus.


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Eli Brayley

 2006/10/31 18:19Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Chronology of End Time Events

Thanks Eli for laying this chronology out for us. I do have a question on one point that has bothereed me for some time now. I haven't received an answer to it as yet, perhaps you can help.


Quote:
-After meeting Him in the air shall we all descend upon the Mount of Olives, where the feet of the King shall land with a great earthquake, splitting the mountain in two (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11). The Lord shall smite the nations and make war, consuming antichrist and his armies with the "spirit of his mouth and the brightness of his coming."



In this part of your chronology that I have quoted above you picture the saints meeting Christ in the air and then immediately turning around and returning to earth with Him at His second coming, this is a common post-trib rapture interpretation of events.

My question concerns the sheep and goat judgment that is found in Matthew 25:32-46. It appears that this judgment is one of the first things Jesus does when he returns to earth in His glory.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
(Mat 25:31-33)
If this is so, and the saints have all been caught up in the air and then returned with Jesus, who are the ones that make up this group of sheep in the sheep and goat judgment?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/10/31 19:01Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]Rev 14:6[/b] [color=990000]And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having an everlasting gospel to proclaim to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,[/color]
The rapture has already happened at this time because there is no Christian available to preach the everlasting gospel, so an angle does

[b]Rev 14:7[/b] [color=990000]saying in a great voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him, because the hour of His judgment has come; also, Worship "Him who has made the heaven, and the earth, and the sea," and the springs of waters.[/color] (Ref. 14:17-20)
This is a statement proclaiming the start of the time of His wrath.

[b]Rev 14:14[/b] [color=990000]And I saw; and behold, a white cloud and on the cloud One sitting like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
[b]:15[/b] And another angel went forth out of the temple, crying in a great voice to the One sitting on the cloud, Send Your sickle and reap, because Your hour to reap came, because the harvest of the earth was dried.
[b]:16[/b] And the One sitting on the cloud thrust His sickle onto the earth, and the earth was reaped.[/color]

(Ref. [b]Matthew 13:39-40,49[/b] [color=990000]The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. [b]:40[/b] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world [b]:49[/b] So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just;[/color]

[b]Rev 14:17[/b] [color=990000]And another angel went forth out of the temple in Heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
[b]:18[/b] And another angel went forth from the altar having authority over the fire. And he spoke with a great cry to the one having the sharp sickle, saying, Send your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, because its grapes are ripened.
[b]:19[/b] And the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw into the winepress of the great anger of God.
[b]:20[/b] And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood went out of the winepress as far as the bridles of the horses, for a distance of 200 miles.[/color]

Ref. [b]Joel 3:12-14[/b] [color=990000]Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. [b]:13[/b] Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. [b]:14[/b] Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.[/color]

[b]Note:[/b] Rev.14:14-16 is an analogy for the Rapture that we also read from the 144,000 which is just a few verses before the statement of Gods’ judgment in Rev.14:7.
If we understand that these verses of the harvest(first fruits) as an analogy. Then Rev.14:17-20 is also an analogy for the judgment of the unjust.

 2006/10/31 21:34Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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 Re:

What follows is not a hostile question but one which arises from my continuing puzzlement over this topic.

"why would God tell us all this 2000 years before it was due and what were the early Christians supposed to do with this information?"


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Ron Bailey

 2006/11/1 5:36Profile
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
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 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
If this is so, and the saints have all been caught up in the air and then returned with Jesus, who are the ones that make up this group of sheep in the sheep and goat judgment?



I hope you don't mind if I step in here. Firstly, I'd like to commend Eli for sticking to the facts, without inserting personal opinion (such as the who, what, where, etc of the Antichrist, mark of the beast, etc). This is very close to what I have come to believe (not that this should either endorse or deny what has been put forward), and its refreshing to not feel like a freak:-).

Ron, may I draw your attention to the next two parts of Eli's post:
Quote:

Eli_Barnabas wrote:
-Jesus Christ shall establish upon this earth His millenial Kingdom, where the saints of God shall rule and reign with Him for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4) During this time the devil is bound.

-At the end of the thousand years, the devil will be loosed for a little season to deceive the nations and rally the armies against Jerusalem one last time (Ezekiel 38-39, Revelation 20:7-9). The Lord shall utterly destroy them and cast that old serpent into the Lake of Fire.



The question that needs to be asked is, who are the "nations" that shall be "deceived" and "rally the armies against Jerusalem"? Unfortunately Scripture leaves alot to the imagination regarding the Millenium, codensing 1000 years of future history into 6 verses. There seems to be the implication that there will still be sinners in the world (see Rev 20:4,6, and ask yourself who the martyrs will reign over), however now there is no Deceiver to tempt them. Perhaps for them they will resent having to submit to the returned Messiah and his beuracracy of glorified saints (see Jude 14, Matt 19:28, Rev 20:4,6). Corruptable flesh (after all, only the saints shall be glorified) shall still be ruled by lusts, with no "god of this world" to blame for their behaviour.

I wonder whether these ones will overtly rebel, or will wait patiently for their Prince of Darkness to return? Consider Judges 2:21-23, where God leaves the inhabitant of Canaan in the promised land in order to "..prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein.." (v22) Notice that in the Millenium, the Deceiver is gone, and therewith the overt temptation to pursue idolatry. I have no clear Scriptural evidence to back up this claim, but I believe that these "rebellious ones" shall conduct themselves in a kind of forced obedience, and when Satan is released, they will let their proverbial hair out, with a great sigh of relief, as they join forces to overthrow their "Oppressor" (ie, Christ).

Consider that when Christ returns to rule from Jerusalem, it will be with righteous judgement (Is 11:3-4, Acts 17:31). In other words, the will be no sin allowed. No adultery, no pornography, no alcholism, etc. Consider also that this will ruin the Saturday nights of many of those who are neither dead, nor caught up, when He returned. To many, Christ's reign will be as a totalitarian dictatorship. Consider also that Christ will not bow down to our every whim, but will deserve our obedience, and "every knee [b]shall[/b] bow, and every tongue confess that He is Lord".

Consider on top of this even the American "Declaration of Independance" (which would be better called, the "Justification of Rebelliousness") which declares that under certain circumstances we are oblidged to overthrow oppression. What better precedent to overthrow the One who denies "basic human rights" that are "self evident" such as "freedom of religion"? After all, Christ's rule will not be democratic, but a monarchy, which will take the form of a benevolent dictatorship.

In the midst of this, shall be "believers" that "received the mark" (whatever that is/was/will be;-)) out of fear of the Antichrist, while the "least of Christ's brethren" are suffering martyrdom. How they are free to "buy and sell" while the true Christians starve, or at least are fed of proverbial ravens, as Elijah at the brook Cherith. Perhaps they will justify their avoidance of them by claiming that they don't want to expose them to persecution? Either way, Scripture allows room for counterfeigt converts to still be alive when Christ returns. Again, they will not be glorified (at least they will not reign with Christ, as those in Rev 20:4) and perhaps they will build for themselves doctrines, out of Christ's direct earshot, as to why they are the true Christians, perhaps even believing Christ to be the Antichrist?

Note also Eli's next point:
Quote:

Eli_Barnabas wrote:
-Then follows the second resurrection, when the earth and sea give up their dead, and all men will stand before the white throne of judgment. "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15). The last enemy to be destroyed is death.


Judgement occurs after the Millenium, and everything that is not to be redeemed from creation (ie, everything but those whose names are written in the Book of Life), is cast into the Lake of Fire, before the new heaven and earth descend. In other words, the whole "sheep and goats" thing occurs after the Millenium, not before.

The Millenium is that last point where God gives His creation opportunity to realise that the only way things can work is when we are wholey submitted to Him. After this, we will have no further excuse. The message finishes just as it began, "choose life" over "the knowledge of good and evil". In other words, choose life, by surrendering it to the only One who truly [b]has[/b] complete knowledge, rather than grasping for "life" while foolishly avoiding the One who is Wisdom personified, and pridefully living our "life" based on selfish lust.

For more on this, may I suggest listening to David Pawson's series on the [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=528]Book of Revelation[/url] or even reading his book [url=http://www.amazon.com/When-Jesus-Returns-David-Pawson/dp/0340612118/sr=8-3/qid=1162378016/ref=pd_bbs_3/002-6269902-7683222?ie=UTF8&s=books]When Jesus Returns[/url], which covers the same material, but goes into more detail. I must admit that I don't see eye to eye with everything that he has to say, but his scholarship is excellent, and he covers every viewpoint fairly. Pawson often states that his desire is that his hearers will check up on him, because he is not infallible. Wise man, that one;-).


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/11/1 6:06Profile
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
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 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
"why would God tell us all this 2000 years before it was due and what were the early Christians supposed to do with this information?"



Ron,

I asked myself this same question after hearing Parkyn's series on History, and at the risk of sounding like I want to eat my cake and keep it too, I raise the issue of "prophetic foreshadowings". I first heard about this from J Jacob Prasch (again, I don't agree with everything that he says) in his article [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=5497&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Future History of the Church[/url], but he also explains the principle in his teaching on [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=11893]Midrasch[/url] (ie, Jewish meathods of Hermaneutics).
To quote Prasch:
Quote:

There is a Biblical principle understood from a Jewish perspective called Qol veh Homer, which in English means 'light to heavy'.


In both the article, Prasch cites instances [b]in the New Testament[/b] where Qol veh Homer was applied to [b]Old Testament prophecies[/b]. Basically, this principle says that after a prophecy is given, it is fulfilled in part, with each successive fulfillment being more encompassing than the last, until the final fulfillment is exact (ie, from light iterpretation, to heavy). I didn't notice until a while after I had read "When Jesus Returns" by David Pawson, that Pawson applies a similar meathod to his eschatological interperatation, calling it foreshadowing.

If this is the case, then there is a both/and to be applied to the whole Historicist/Furuturist debate, that does not require an either/or decision. In other words, the same Revelation that spoke to the early church, and warned them of Christ's iminent return, speaks the same thing to us today.

The punch line is, just as at the first Advent of Christ there was a flood of prophetic fulfillment, part of which had appeared to already be fulfilled, so in the Second. Therefore, we may not know that it is really "at hand" until moments before its ultimate fulfillment. However, just as those who earnestly sought Messiah's first coming recognised the signs of His appearing, I'm confident that so will those who now discern the times that we are in, not be surprised by the Second.

So it's a matter of "knowing where you are in the Book", but also knowing that the Book has so much more to say, than what we have already been "shown and told".


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/11/1 6:35Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Judgement occurs after the Millenium, and everything that is not to be redeemed from creation (ie, everything but those whose names are written in the Book of Life), is cast into the Lake of Fire, before the new heaven and earth descend. In other words, the whole "sheep and goats" thing occurs after the Millenium, not before.



When I think of the verse, "When the Son of Man comes in His Glory...", my mind immediately goes to Christ's second coming at the sound of the last trumpet. This whole passage in Matthew is obviously about the second coming and is linked to the disciples question, "What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age? In order for this to be the great white throne judgment I guess we would have to make that phrase include the time all the way through the millenium.

I guess I have to ask myself if that is unreasonable. Perhaps not, given the various expressions Jesus used to describe the last days.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/11/1 9:22Profile
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Joined: 2005/7/11
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 Re: Chronology of End Time Events

Quote:
What follows is not a hostile question but one which arises from my continuing puzzlement over this topic.

"why would God tell us all this 2000 years before it was due and what were the early Christians supposed to do with this information?"



Personal history:
I grew up believing in a PreTribulation Rapture of the church because it was the only thing that I was ever taught. I then began to read the books by Tim LaHaye, John Hagee, and Hal Lindsy. I started to see some of the reasoning behind the pretribulation rapture and it just did not add up in my mind. I saw their reasoning but it seemed far-fetched. I then began to read about the post-tribulation rapture and that seemed to be more biblically sound.

Then I was blesssed to listen to the Edgar Parkyns series on Revelation available here at sermonindex and it blew my mind. I was amazed to see the corelation between Revelation and History.

I highly recommend to all who are interested, please take the time to listen to the Historicist view of Revelation found at:


[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?op=&cid=133]Revelation series[/url]

I also believe that philologos has the same lectures on a better format.

 2006/11/1 9:34Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Revelations interprets itself to a point. You need to look at how some parts of revelation mesh or overlap with other parts.
You can't read Revelations as chronologically linier in time from chapter to chapter, although some chapters are that way; some thing could happen at the same time or even overlap. Remember the Bowls & the Trumpets are all in the 7th seal and the Bowls are all in the 6th and 7th trumpet.

The sections are split into parts.
The revelation Chap. 1
The Letters to the Churches in chap.' 2-3
The throne room in chaps.' 4,5
The Horsemen Chapt; 6:1-8
Chapt;6: 8-17 tells about the time during the Anti-christ reign untill the Rapture.
The trumpets; Chapt; 7-11:
Then a whole new view or "sign" starts in chap. 12-14
Then another view or "sign" starts in chap. 15-16
Then the Judgment of the Harlot in chap. 17-19
Then the Millennium or the 1000 year reign of our Lord and the rebellion in chap. 20
Then Eternity in chap. 21-22

 2006/11/1 11:50Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I highly recommend to all who are interested, please take the time to listen to the Historicist view of Revelation found at:


Revelation series

I also believe that philologos has the same lectures on a better format.



'though I myself am not a consistent historicist in these things.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/11/1 12:37Profile





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