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Discussion Forum : General Topics : CONTINUOUS CONVERSION....?

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 CONTINUOUS CONVERSION....?


EDIT: I've retitled this thread, and bumped it up, because the points which Oswald Chambers makes in this extract, are worth our deep consideration.... for all sorts of reasons....

The reason which strikes me most strongly, is the steady stream of threads in the Scriptures forum, about whether it is possible to stop [i]what WE call [/i] 'sinning' or not.

This ('sinning') doesn't seem to be the thrust of the following quotation, but, I submit that [i]obedience[/i] and the need for a consciousness of what flows from obedience (or lack of obedience), forms a large part of what OC is bringing to the front of our minds, here, with the aim of making us more conscientious about taking every opportunity to do what is right.

George Muller advised 'try not to sin'.... because, he points out, (my paraphrase), it takes the ground from under the enemy's feet.... One does not, then, have to spend time and energy fighting him (the enemy) off, or, in getting right with God... The strengths which would be thus dissipated, can be put straight into furthering God's kingdom.

'The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof' Psa 24:1.

Is the 'earth' of your body (the dust of the ground), your heart (parable of the sower), your [i]life[/i] being wholly possessed by God?

(Don't worry. I ask myself the same questions all the time.)

OK. Here's Oswald Chambers. [EDIT end]



December 28th.


CONTINUOUS CONVERSION



"Except ye be converted, and become as little children. . . ." Matthew 18:3

These words of Our Lord are true of our initial conversion, but we have to be continuously converted all the days of our lives, continually to turn to God as children. If we trust to our wits instead of to God, we produce consequences for which God will hold us responsible. Immediately our bodies are brought into new conditions by the providence of God, we have to see that our natural life obeys the dictates of the Spirit of God. [b]Because we have done it once is no proof that we shall do it again.[/b] The relation of the natural to the spiritual is one of continuous conversion, and it is the one thing we object to. In every setting in which we are put, the Spirit of God remains unchanged and His salvation unaltered, but we have to "put on the new man." God holds us responsible every time we refuse to convert ourselves, our reason for refusing is wilful obstinacy. Our natural life must not rule, God must rule in us.

The hindrance in our spiritual life is that we will not be continually converted, there are wadges of obstinacy where our pride spits at the throne of God and says - I won't. We deify independence and wilfulness and call them by the wrong name. What God looks on as obstinate weakness, we call strength. There are whole tracts of our lives which have not yet been brought into subjection, and it can only be done by this continuous conversion. Slowly but surely we can claim the whole territory for the Spirit of God.




I was looking for something else, which I haven't found yet, but it's so long since I read My Utmost for His Highest on a regular basis, that I'm just enjoying the stroll through this remarkable man's gift of expressing truth.

His description of 'continuous conversion' - particularly the idea that one act of obedience does not commit us [u]reliably[/u] to the next, (in conjunction with his other thoughts about not relying on feeling the wind of the Spirit before doing what we know we should, or have been inspired or commanded by the Lord), I think, years ago, I really [i][b]hadn't[/b][/i] grasped.

Recently, I was thinking about this from a different perspective..... simply.... the gospel I had heard seemed to suggest that once one was born again, one was floating along in a sea of willing compliance with all the Lord's heart.

Perhaps, if one is older, knows one's Bible and has been through a frustrating time of powerless Christian endeavour, that is genuinely how the baptism in the Spirit comes..... carrying one into a whole new world of victory on all fronts.

Certainly, that didn't happen to me. Long after I was born again I was a sitting duck because my expectations were so high but my actual 'life' was in bondage to past experience. Sigh.

That was until I heard the book of Joshua preached upon at a conference; then I began to understand what OC says here:

'There are whole tracts of our lives which have not yet been brought into subjection, and it can only be done by this continuous conversion. [b]Slowly but surely we [u]can[/u] claim the whole territory for the Spirit of God[/b].



Amen. :-D

 2006/10/21 8:10
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: OC says '...no proof...'

Quote:
CONTINUOUS CONVERSION



Dorcas, What a delight to read your post! It expresses the exact same thoughts that I was meditating on this morning, and was even planning to post a thread, but you beat me to it!

Only I was going to use a different word: ”Repentance” instead of “conversion” Regardless of the word, it’s all about a continuous “changing of mind” , being transformed by the renewing of our minds and maturing. (I could insert many scriptures here)

To me conversion is the same as repentance – converting our minds, our understanding, our thinking, our actions, our responses to life, being more and more Christ centered.

Job said, “.. I repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:6

Now, God never did say anything about Job’s sins, or even that he needed to repent. Yet Job repented. After his trials, he ended up with a change of mind – a bigger picture of God, and a smaller picture of himself. John the Baptist said, “He must increase, I must decrease.” That is a continuous process of conversion (repentance), yet also a product of specific life crisis, and specific choices.


Richard Owen Roberts speaks about the continuous need of repentance (conversion): We must repent, not only of sin and unbelief, but also of faulty thinking and dead works. Now, let’s be honest, none of us accomplishes all that in one act of “repentance” It is a life long process!

It is a tragedy that evangelicals have focused on only one kind of conversion, and many perceive only one kind of repentance.
Quote:
my actual 'life' was in bondage to past experience. Sigh.


The failure to embrace the broader scope of conversion has left the church plagued with impotent people. They ‘squeak” into the kingdom (if even that), and fail to move on into maturity and victorious living.

Thankfully the Spirit knows what repentance process is best for each of his children. He may work on conversion for years, before there is any appearance of the New Life. I’d say it was that way for me.

Only God knows where the Wind bloweth. But we can be sure of this: It bloweth!

Quote:
Slowly but surely we can claim the whole territory for the Spirit of God.



Little by little... the strongholds get conquored..

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/10/21 10:15Profile









 Re:

Diane said;

Quote:
We must repent, [b]not only of sin and unbelief, but also of faulty thinking and dead works[/b]. Now, let’s be honest, none of us accomplishes all that in one act of “repentance” It is a life long process!

Hello there,

I, too, have been meditating on the need for a new mind, and the apostle's words 'but we have the mind of Christ'.

It led me to think about Noah being 'shut in' to the Ark, by God. That took faith on Noah's part. Am I willing to climb into the safety of Christ, as he did in a figure?

 2006/10/21 14:26









 Re: CONTINUOUS CONVERSION


I've edited the leading post, in the hope some of you who struggle with the idea it is possible to 'stop sinning', will take some hope from the Oswald Chambers quote in the leading post, as much as being realistic at how to view such progress...... that is, that it's a process..... not an instantaneous once and for all transaction in our experience.

In heaven, everything is settled, (Heb 10:14), but, on earth we come into the [i]good[/i] of what is settled in heaven, as we lay hold of it believingly, and put into practise the moment by moment obedience God speaks to our hearts. This is how we are [i][b]being[/i][/b] saved, day by day.

 2006/10/30 8:08
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the onion


Our "Self" - like an onion
source unknown

Much of our spiritual life
has a great deal of leaven
of self-advantage and self-glory
only on a higher level,
and of a more refined sort.

Nothing is so hard to kill as pride and selfishness.

Man is like an onion - layer after layer,
and each layer of self in some form.

Strip off self-righteousness,
and you will come to self-trust;
get beneath this
and you will meet self-seeking,
and self-pleasing;
and even when you think these are abandoned,
self will betrays its presence.

If this seems stripped off,
you find self-defense,
and last of all,
self-glory.

And when even this seems abandoned,
the heart of the human 'onion'-
most offensive of all-

is the selfish PRIDE
that boasts at last of being truly humble.


_________________
Diane

 2006/10/30 21:27Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

CONTINUOUS CONVERSION>>>>actually the Hebrews looked at salvation as an ongoing and repeated action, the book of Joshua and the taking of the land of Caanan serving us well as an example of our lives and how we may possess the land. Figuritively speaking.


_________________
D.Miller

 2006/10/30 23:12Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: CONTINUOUS CONVERSION....?

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
That was until I heard the book of Joshua preached upon at a conference; then I began to understand what OC says here:

'There are whole tracts of our lives which have not yet been brought into subjection, and it can only be done by this continuous conversion. Slowly but surely we can claim the whole territory for the Spirit of God.




This verse summarizes the entire life of Joshua...

Joshua 1: 3 Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you, as I said to Moses.

From this introduction, we proceed through the example given to us in Scripture.

God reveals His commands to Joshua. Joshua obeys. Everytime he obeyed, the land that he walked on became his. Those few times where Joshua did not consult the Lord, what happened?

Likewise, Paul and John always encourage the brethren to grow in maturity from a child to a young man, to a father. Those who remain as a child suffer this...

Eph 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

Solomon writes about the same thing...

Prov. 1:22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.

Prov. 1:32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;


Solomon writes of the Holy Spirit...

4 “Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!”
As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him,
5 “Come, eat of my bread
And drink of the wine I have mixed.
6 Forsake foolishness and live,
And go in the way of understanding.

God Bless

Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/11/1 22:37Profile
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re: CONTINUOUS CONVERSION....?

Awesome post Dorcas...


Richard Blackaby actually delves into this concept and quotes this thought of Chambers in his latest book [i]Hearing God's Voice[/i]...

Again it not just the gate of salvation but the journey that we undertake to draw near to Christ and know Him more and more and the depth to which we plumb that relationship that is the meaning, and true JOY of our salvation.

[i][b]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life--and only a few find it."[/i] Matthew 7:13-14[/b]


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/11/7 9:03Profile





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