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logan_trky
Member



Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re:

I agree with Krispy on this subject. I believe that it is dangerous to change the DOCTRINE of God's Word. My opinion about the NIV version is that it is a "Religious Book" more than a Bible, because it is not the ORIGINAL text. In John 3:16, the NIV describes Him as the 'one and only' Son of God, dropping the significant word 'begotten.' Not only is it not true that Jesus is the 'one and only' Son of God, since we are also the sons of God, but this is not faithful to the Greek text which uses the word 'only begotten.' This is a weakening of the truth of Christ's deity. I could show you many concerning the NIV scriptures, but I'm tired of typing :-) . It was also said that new born again believers may not "understand" the KJV. I believe that if you make a strong effort to read your Bible DAILY, God will help you to understand His Word. I have heard of people that were illiterate, but when they made an attempt to read the Bible along with fasting and praying, God would teach them how to read the Bible. That thrills my heart! I don't want to be repeatative, but if you will make an effort God will reveal His Word to you! :-)

 2006/10/19 17:06Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Question:

Am I sinning by reading and studying with an NIV translation?

 2006/10/19 17:49Profile
logan_trky
Member



Joined: 2006/9/14
Posts: 29


 Re:

JaySaved, I would not go so far as to say you are sinning. I would say however, you are reading and studying some false doctrine that could, if you are not careful lead you astray. Am I saying that every scripture in the NIV is situated in such a way that everything in it is false doctrine? No. However, I would rather stay AS CLOSE AS I CAN to the exact translation. I believe it is important to stay as close as you can possibly get to the Word of God because it is the most important tangible thing a believer can have. Wouldn't you agree?

 2006/10/19 18:47Profile
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Quote:

logan_trky wrote:
I agree with Krispy on this subject. I believe that it is dangerous to change the DOCTRINE of God's Word. My opinion about the NIV version is that it is a "Religious Book" more than a Bible, because it is not the ORIGINAL text. In John 3:16, the NIV describes Him as the 'one and only' Son of God, dropping the significant word 'begotten.' Not only is it not true that Jesus is the 'one and only' Son of God, since we are also the sons of God, but this is not faithful to the Greek text which uses the word 'only begotten.' This is a weakening of the truth of Christ's deity. I could show you many concerning the NIV scriptures, but I'm tired of typing :-) . It was also said that new born again believers may not "understand" the KJV. I believe that if you make a strong effort to read your Bible DAILY, God will help you to understand His Word. I have heard of people that were illiterate, but when they made an attempt to read the Bible along with fasting and praying, God would teach them how to read the Bible. That thrills my heart! I don't want to be repeatative, but if you will make an effort God will reveal His Word to you! :-)



In the foot notes to John 3:16 the NIV says "or the only begotten son". Please demonstrate an actual Christian doctrine that has been "changed" in the NIV, NKJ, or the NASB. Since I only use those three translations, maybe I lack some sort of enlightenment from not using a bible with a language that is 400 years old? I'm guessing not though. My big problem with the KJV is that I don't speak to God using "thees" and "thou's", and He doesn't speak to me that way either.

BTW, does God teach illiterate people how to read only the Kings James Bible? Just food for thought, because I personally know someone who was mentally handicapped, became saved and learned to read... the NIV! Maybe I should follow up and make sure she has her doctrines straight!

 2006/10/20 2:53Profile









 Re: another new version

Thought some might find this new article on new version disturbing. basically a cut and run version.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52536
God bless, John

 2006/10/20 4:16
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Quote:

thingsabove wrote:
Thought some might find this new article on new version disturbing. basically a cut and run version.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52536
God bless, John



Read carefully, it's satire....

 2006/10/20 4:31Profile
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Quote:

logan_trky wrote:
My opinion about the NIV version is that it is a "Religious Book" more than a Bible, because it is not the ORIGINAL text. :-)



No one on this earth has the ORIGINAL text, therefore you can't prove the accuracy of ANY translation when compared to the ORIGINAL, sorry folks but that is a fact. ALL the biblical manuscripts that exist today are copies of copies, so no one can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with 100% accuracy what the originals contained. Thats not heresy that's the truth.

 2006/10/20 4:46Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
My big problem with the KJV is that I don't speak to God using "thees" and "thou's", and He doesn't speak to me that way either.


There is a big difference between 'thee' and 'you'which is lost in all modern versions. The ESV has made a small effort in resolving it but it is very inconsistent and that to me is worse than what most other new versions do.

Let me illustrate...
Here are almost a hundred places where the KJV has 'ye' and 'thee' in the same verse..
Gen 17:10; 43:29; 50:17; Ex 3:12,18; 9:30; 12:24; 23:25; 25:9; 30:37; 33:5; Lev 10:9,14; 19:19,33; Num 16:10; 18:7; Deut 1:31; 4:23; 5:28; 6:3,17; 7:12,25; 8:1; 12:1,7; 18:15; 23:4; 25:17; 27:2; 28:68; 32:6; Josh 2:14; 7:13; 8:2; Judg 14:15; 15:12; 18:24; 1Sam 9:19; 14:40; 25:6; 29:10; 2Sam 11:20; 2Kings 2:16; 6:2; 9:11; 19:10,29; Neh 1:8; Job 42:7; Psa 27:8; 32:9; 116:19; Song 6:13; Is 30:21-22; 37:10,30; 41:14; 44:8; 48:6; 65:15; Jer 2:31; 3:22; 17:4; 22:26; 29:26; 34:14; 36:19; 37:18; 46:14; 49:5; Ezek 7:4,9; 35:9; Hos 5:8; 14:3; Mic 6:16; Zech 9:12; 14:5; Mal 1:7-8; 2:14; 3:8,13; Matt 5:39; 21:5; 23:37; Luke 5:24; 13:34; 22:11; John 3:7,11; Acts 5:9; Heb 13:5; Rev 2:10

This can only mean that in these verses it is distinguishing between the singular and the plural. This distinction is lost in modern versions. Here a classic example of the above..

[color=0000ff]“And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have [u]you[/u], that he may sift [u]you[/u] as wheat: But I have prayed for [u]thee[/u], that [u]thy[/u] faith fail not: and when [u]thou[/u] art converted, strengthen [u]thy[/u] brethren.”
(Luke 22:31-32 KJVS)[/color]

It was not only Peter who went through the sifting but this is a word of personal encouragement to an individual. This is God's way. Our temptations and trials may be 'common to all men' but the word of God must come to me personally to sustain me in the hour of trial. This is lost in the modern versions.

[color=0000ff]“And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.”
(Ex 3:12 KJVS)[/color]
This is a promise that God's faithfulness to an individual will result in blessing for a nation. It is a similar truth to that found in..

[color=0000ff]“Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.”
(Heb 11:28-29 KJVS)[/color]
Moses' faith was the seed to that of a nation.

[color=0000ff]“And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.”
(Ex 23:25 KJVS)[/color]
This is a promise that if the nation keeps the law of God, God will preserve the individual from sickness. It would take the obedience of the whole nation for this to come true.

Even at the time when the KJV was translated 'thee' and 'thou' had almost vanished from popular use but the translators still knew the difference between singular and plural and enshrined it in their translation.

It is important that we speak to God in our own language. For a reader of the KJV his personal language of devotion will change simply because he is meditating in the language of the KJV. This does not make his prayer more spiritual but it will affect the way he prays.

Additionally, and this is almost always forgotten in this context, 'thou' is linguistically more personal and intimate than 'you' which is part of the reason it has survived in romantic poetry. Many think that 'thou' is more noble and magnifies God more effectively; it does not. If rightly understood, 'thou' is the personal pronoun that a child would use in addressing its Father, 'you' is the personal pronoun that a subject would use in addressing his king. Their is a closeness and intimacy in the one that is missing from the other.

I could go on... but you will see my point. One of the main reasons I continue to use the KJV is that I believe it encourages my intimacy with God and his with me. It is the language of lovers.

If you would like to know more please read this pdf... [url=http://ncw.biblebase.com/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?cid=3&lid=3]Teach thyself olde Englishe[/url] :-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/10/20 6:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
No one on this earth has the ORIGINAL text, therefore you can't prove the accuracy of ANY translation when compared to the ORIGINAL, sorry folks but that is a fact. ALL the biblical manuscripts that exist today are copies of copies, so no one can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with 100% accuracy what the originals contained. Thats not heresy that's the truth.



Technically what your saying is absolutely true. However, this is where faith comes in. I happen to believe that God promised to preserve His Word for all generations. He has either done that, or He hasnt. There is a measure of faith involved here... and without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

You probably believe God created everything, correct? Why do you believe that? How can you proove it absolutely? Do you believe it because thats what God's Word says? You admit you cant know with absolute certainty that what we have is God's pure Word.

Point being... you accept on faith that God created the world and everything in it. You accept that on FAITH.

Well, I accept on FAITH that God is capable of preserving His pure Word. If He isnt capable of a relatively small feat such as that, how can ever accept that He created the world? How can we ever accept that our sins are forgiven?

We are truly in a sad state if we DONT have God's preserved Word!

Krispy

 2006/10/20 8:23









 Re:

Philologos... excellent explanation of the Thee Thou issue. Much better than I could do! Thanx!

Krispy

 2006/10/20 8:25





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