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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once a Son, Always a Son?

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Zealot
Member



Joined: 2006/10/2
Posts: 12
Colorado

 Re:

Even without the race metaphor, Jesus still said "those who endure to the end will be saved."
Those who endure (in faith in Him) until the end of their life (which Paul then compares to a race), will be saved.

Quote:
Quote:
Obviously that means that if someone starts the race, gets halfway through and then stops...they will not be saved. But the point is: they were in the race!
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Being in the race doesn't save you.


I never said it did. Finishing the race saves you, enduring to the end saves you.

But you don't say ,"Endure to the end" to someone who isn't in the faith yet! They haven't even begun yet! Jesus is talking to those who believe in Him...

Quote:
1 Corinthians 9:24 [ Striving for a Crown ] Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.
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The crown being life... salvation.


Exactly my point. "Run in such a way to obtain it." How do you obtain the prize? [b]Finish the race![/b] You have to finish the race, to obtain the prize.

Quote:
14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."



Again...I submit to you that you [u]cannot[/u] vomit or spew something unless it has already become a part of your body.
Next time you try to eat your steak, try and make yourself vomit it up before you eat it and it becomes a part of your body. Not going to happen.

Quote:
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Meaning He is saved.



Your kind of proving my point with that statement...He [b]finished[/b] the race (endured to the end) he [b]kept[/b] the faith (did not lose it, throw it away, or walk away from it) and [b]THEREFORE[/b] he is saved.


_________________
Adam Ramsey

 2006/10/11 12:16Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Quote:
Again...I submit to you that you cannot vomit or spew something unless it has already become a part of your body. Next time you try to eat your steak, try and make yourself vomit it up before you eat it and it becomes a part of your body. Not going to happen.



Ok, I'm saying that they needed to repent and be saved. They were never a part of Christ's true church. Proof being the context...

Rev 3:18 "I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see."

Matthew 12:30 "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad."

Quote:
The only way someone can not endure to the end is that they start the race but do not finish.

Right, only if somebody makes it to the end. If they drop out half way, they don't get life and have never had it. Proof being...

1 John 3:6 "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."


_________________
Kristy

 2006/10/11 16:16Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: to Know or not to Know

“Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord….
Then I will tell you plainly, “I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers.” Matt. 7:23


QUESTION:
Will Jesus say to some: “Depart from me. I knew you only for a while.”

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/10/11 21:10Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: What Does God say about this?

This topic has hit the “headlines” a lot since I’ve been on SI. I find it odd that with so much discussion among so many knowledgeable Christians the issue isn’t settled. One always seems to find verses to support or reject either side. One would almost think that God badly blew it when inspiring the Bible writers. He failed to make this clear – and so we are here – stuck with endless debate.

Okay, so we’re not going to blame the Bible. That means the problem must be on the human side. We’re not hearing something right from God - a communication breakdown, maybe?

It may be a bit like this: You turn on a radio, and there is no sound. So you fiddle with the buttons and knobs, you whack the radio, you tweak the antenna, but still no sound. Then someone asks you the all-time embarrassing question: “Is it plugged in?” Dahhhh….

Maybe we must look beyond at the surface of the OSAS issues and go back a few steps - and see if we’re plugged in with the source of Truth – the Spirit. After all, the Spirit is certainly not going to tell some people one thing and another group the opposite.

I feel that one will never see eternal perspectives as long as he is relying on natural logic, or is blinded by misconceptions: ex: Incorrect understanding of salvation, eternity, divine sovereignty, the role of the Spirit, kingdom life, grace, works, redemption, etc.


Earlier I looked at the list of the word “know/knew” in my concordance, and now I suspect that a word study may shed light….. Christ knowing us…. We knowing God….

Here’s some questions I'm asking myself: What is the difference between the Spirit testifying with our spirit that we are sons of God (Rom. 8 ) or our own imagination telling us that we are saved? How can you tell the difference? How do trials and testings expose the difference? How does this relate with perseverance of the saints, salvation,, eternal security.

Edit: Maybe God never intended for us to know the salvation status of everybody else. Instead, we are responsible for our own spiritutal condition. And we need the Spirit to give us personal enlightenment.

God's children will never KNOW TRUE ASSURANCE without the Spirit's witness within themselves.

Shouldn't we leave the eternal destiny of others in God's hands, and occupy ourselves with KNOWING God and growing deeper in him. Then we will learn God's ways more and more - as he reveals his truth to us.



9 So we have not stopped praying for you
since we first heard about you.

We ask God to give you complete knowledge of his will
and to give you spiritual wisdom and understanding.

10 Then the way you live will always honor and please the Lord,
and your lives will produce every kind of good fruit.

All the while,
you will grow as you learn to know God better and better.

11 We also pray that you will be strengthened
with all his glorious power
so you will have all the endurance and patience you need.

May you be filled with joy,
always thanking the Father.

He has enabled you to share
in the inheritance that belongs to his people,
who live in the light.

13 For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness
and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son,
who purchased our freedom and forgave our sins. Col. 1:9 -14 NLT


Diane


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Diane

 2006/10/11 22:43Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Matthew 10:21-25 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

This is not saying if you don't endure to the end you won't be saved. It saying plainly that you will be persecuted just like I, Jesus am persecuted. He that endures to the end will be called the same as He was and the works He did were by Satan, that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. In enduring these same persecutions as He did I going to be our salvation. This is verifying that The Christ in you is your strength and that we are baptized into His suffering and death. Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

If God has birthed His Son in a believer, the believer will not be aborted and cast away, or God would be throwing away His own Seed.

We will suffer with Him for His names save and we will endure to the end and be saved.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:

Denying Him is unbelief and salvation is not possible.

The other scriptures are the same.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end , the same shall be saved .

That, should not be in this verse. It should read: But he shall stay under, remain, undergo, bear trials, have fortitude, persevere, abide,
Etc.

"but he that shall endure 5278. hupomeno
Search for G5278 in KJVSL
upomenw hupomeno hoop-om-en'-o

from 5259 and 3306; to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figuratively, to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere:--abide, endure, (take) patient(-ly), suffer, tarry behind.

Leave out "that" and the understanding clearly available for those that are in Christ, by the Spirit of God, And the Spirit of Christ is not abortable.

Mark 13:13 the same: Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake : but he that shall endure unto the end , the same shall be saved .

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/10/12 2:09Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re: 1 John 3:6

1 John 3:6 "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins (habitually) has neither seen Him nor known Him."

This clearly says that if you live in sin, you are lost and have always been lost.

I don't think there is much of a debate here overall.

In Christ,
Kristina


_________________
Kristy

 2006/10/13 15:22Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Pretty simple huh; Christ in you the hope of Glory unto eternal life or Christ not in you unto eternal separation from God.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/10/14 2:25Profile
KindGottes
Member



Joined: 2006/4/4
Posts: 60
Tulsa, Oklahoma

 Re:

Thank you, Phillip!

Short sentence, but it says it all!

Be blessed,

Bea


_________________
Beate Masslock

 2006/10/14 12:11Profile





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