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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : OT Indwelling

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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Absolutely, but Joshua is not Jesus Christ, he is a picture of what Christ would become and now is. We must see Christ in the whole word of God, but making Him the salvation of the old testament is not rightly dividing the scripture.



I have found in Scripture that men either begin to grow into the image of Satan or Christ.

This particular section of Scripture describes both Lucifer and the son of Nebuchadnezzar.

Is. 14:3 It shall come to pass in the day the LORD gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve, 4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:
“How the oppressor has ceased,
The golden city ceased!
5 The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked,
The scepter of the rulers;
6 He who struck the people in wrath with a continual stroke,
He who ruled the nations in anger,
Is persecuted and no one hinders.
7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
They break forth into singing.
8 Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you,
And the cedars of Lebanon,
Saying, “Since you were cut down,
No woodsman has come up against us.’
9 “Hell from beneath is excited about you,
To meet you at your coming;
It stirs up the dead for you,
All the chief ones of the earth;
It has raised up from their thrones
All the kings of the nations.
10 They all shall speak and say to you:
“Have you also become as weak as we?
Have you become like us?
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
And the sound of your stringed instruments;
The maggot is spread under you,
And worms cover you.’
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
“I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
18 “All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;
19 But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.
The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children
Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
Lest they rise up and possess the land,
And fill the face of the world with cities.”
22 “For I will rise up against them,” says the LORD of hosts,
“And cut off from Babylon the name and remnant,
And offspring and posterity,” says the LORD.

I believe that this example in Scripture illustrates the outworking of God's promise to Satan in Genesis 3:15. In this particular promise God speaks of Satan's seed and the woman's Seed. The above Scripture paints a picture of Lucifer's seed, the son of Nebuchadnezzar.


So likewise we also are given examples of the woman's Seed.

Does not faith create the image of the one whom one worships?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/11 4:41Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Psalm 119 is Christ and what He will accomplish in His ministry.



Would not those who experienced the word of God as the writer of Psalm 119 did, know Christ?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/11 4:44Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
This was not accomplished until Christ was 'exalted at the right hand of the Father'. While Christ was on earth He could not 'indwell' anyone. It was only when he had left the earth and sent the Spirit that 'indwelling' could be possible.



When one speaks of indwelling what is it that the Spirit of Christ brings forth in an individual?

Does this have any corelation with the definition of faith given to us in the book of Hebrews?

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/11 4:52Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Jeff writes...

Quote:
When one speaks of indwelling what is it that the Spirit of Christ brings forth in an individual?

Does this have any corelation with the definition of faith given to us in the book of Hebrews?


There is a verse in Galatians which may serve the first question. [color=0000ff]“But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:”
(Gal 1:15-16 KJVS)[/color]

Many modern versions have taken the line of least resistance with this verse and have translated it 'revealed his Son [u]to[/u] me. (NIV, ESV, NLT, RSV) The word 'in' is the Greek word 'en' which is most easily translated as 'in' (or within) and possibly as 'by'. The point of reference in this verse is that Christ is 'in Paul'. It is the corollary to Paul's famous phrase 'in Christ'. As a result of Christ being 'in' Paul it was possible for Christ to reveal Himself 'in' or 'by' Paul. Paul becomes an incarnate revelation of Christ himself.

The OT experience was of faithful men, empowered by the Holy Spirit, who bore witness to Christ. His purpose for Israel was that they should be 'witnesses' to the God who dwelt 'among' them. This theme is continued in Acts where Christ says that "you shall receive inherent power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you, and you shall be witnesses to me..."

This special 'coming upon' 'falling upon' 'being Holy Spirit filled' clearly took place in the next chapter. From this time God had come to his temple, the new born church, and the church became his witnesses. I have often made the point that this is 'being witnesses' and not just 'witnessing'. It was not just the words but the lives of these men and women which would become God's witness upon the earth... not longer designated 'Jehovah's Witnesses' as Israel had been but now 'Jesus' Witnesses'.

The 'definition of faith' from Hebrews is used to introduce what is sometimes called the theme of 'justifying faith' as a reading of the examples makes plain. Abraham was justified by faith, so was David and many more. But did these OT saints have the unique empowering of the Pentecostal Spirit to qualify and equip them to [u]be[/u] 'Jesus' Witnesses'?


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Ron Bailey

 2006/10/11 6:06Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff wrote:

"So likewise we also are given examples of the woman's Seed.

Does not faith create the image of the one whom one worships? "

The only seed of the woman that is of any consequence pertaining to Jesus Christ is Mary's seed, which is the ovum of the woman, that is the special body. (no sin in the ovum) that God had given her to prepare for the sin free body of Christ to receive the Seed of God From the Father to create A Son that was the Lamb of God.
Thus Christ all God and all man. God incarnate in man. That is why woman was taken out of man and became the receiver of seed by her seed.

There is no sin transfer of the seed of a women. The sin transfer comes from Adam, the man, in whom the seed carries the sin nature of the father he chose, that is Satan. None of us can choose to have a different father by flesh birthing, we can only have a different Father by spiritual birth. That is the old man, with Satan as Adam's chosen father. The New man is The Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Now by the new birthing by God the Father putting His Seed in the human container which is now The New Creature in Christ Jesus, we are birthed by the Incorruptable Seed of God Himself and the old seed of Satan is no more in control of the container.

Faith comes by the Christ in us, or else the faith given to all mankind would be the faith that we live by, and that faith cannot reach the kingdom of God. "Ye must be born again our you cannot enter or see the thing of the Kingdom of God. This is the "Faith of the Son of God" which the born again live by.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we are crucified with Christ then we live by the Faith of Christ that is in us.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

That is why John can say "if we say we have no sin we make God a liar." Because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Then with Christ in you, John says, "He that is born of God cannot sin". We are as free from sin as the Christ that is born again in us. That is why God is faithful and just to forgive us by our confession in agreeing with God what sin is.

Faith is not in a woman or man, Faith is in Christ and Christ is in you the Hope of Glory.

So; Quote: "Does not faith create the image of the one whom one worships?" No, but the Faith of the Image of Christ Himself, who is Christ in you, does.


In Christ, becoming faithful because of His Faith in me: Phillip



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Phillip

 2006/10/11 19:05Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Ron, Great explanation, would it be alright if I use it in bible study?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/10/11 19:36Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
It was not just the words but the lives of these men and women which would become God's witness upon the earth... not longer designated 'Jehovah's Witnesses' as Israel had been but now 'Jesus' Witnesses'.



I have two comments...

First, Is not Jesus the One who bares witness of Himself in all generations. I say this in regards to the idea of how men learn the righteousness that emanates from God.


Job 33:26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

Here we learn that God is the one who restores man by giving him "His righteousness."

We see the same in...

Psa. 119:40 Behold, I long for Your precepts;
Revive me in Your righteousness.

By what means does God enable man to know His righteousness?

Secondly, in the definition of faith, we find these words...

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

What might one understand "the substance" to be?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/12 1:50Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The only seed of the woman that is of any consequence pertaining to Jesus Christ is Mary's seed, which is the ovum of the woman, that is the special body.



An earthly woman, a woman made from the dust of the earth does not have a seed...

According to Scripture, it is man who has the seed.

In Genesis 3:15 God is speaking to Satan. The promise that God speaks to Satan is entirely spiritual in nature. Please remember that we war not against flesh and blood but against the powers and principalities of this world.

When Scriptures speaks of children in the spiritual nature we see two sources of creation. One father is Satan, the other Father of course is God.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/12 1:58Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity , and between thy seed and her seed ; it shall bruise thy head


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Phillip

 2006/10/12 5:16Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Ron, Great explanation, would it be alright if I use it in bible study?


;-) I guessed that post would draw you in! Yes, freely given... freely use!


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/10/12 5:42Profile





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