SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : OT Indwelling

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren
i wonder though, there is the account of saul who at one point prophesied all night and then later on was plagued by an evil spirit sent of God. perhaps the Spirit of God being in the O.T. saints is somehow different, we are sealed until the day of judgement maybe they were not...perhaps that is the reason for Christ going down to the lower parts of the earth?

anyway how does this knowledge benefit us exactly?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/9/29 11:53Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
The indwelling in the O.T. saints seemed to be temporal and work specific.

This is one aspect of the truth which is repeated in the language of 'anointing'. In 1 John we have...

[color=0000ff]“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.” (1John 2:27 KJVS)[/color]

...where we find that the 'anointing' now 'abides' (Greek 'menO' = remains) and has become internal ie abideth in you.

I agree but the reason I quoted all those references was to draw attention to the fact that the purpose of the 'Spirit in' those OT believers was [u]always[/u] to enable them to 'do'. This experience of the Spirit was an experience which uniquely equipped men to do a specific task. The emphasis of the NT, while including the enabling to 'do' of the OT, is really the ability to 'be'.

[color=0000ff]“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall [u]be[/u] witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 KJVS)[/color]

It is easy to misread this. We might have expected it to say 'you shall witness' which would have been the verb 'martureO'; the word is usually translated 'bear witness' in the KJV. But the verb in this phrase is 'eimi' which is the Greek verb 'to be' and is in the future tense, hence the KJV translation 'you shall [u]be[/u] witnesses'

When the OT enabling was needed on the 'inside' in creative activity the Spirit was on the 'inside' but as a Spirit who empowered and equipped the OT saint to do his job. The NT emphasis on the 'indwelling Spirit' is not empowerment of 'ministry' but 'empowerment of 'life'. This is why the phrase Spirit of Christ is a synonym for the phrase Holy Spirit. The life that was witnessed in the person of Christ is now communicated to the NT saint in the person of the Holy Spirit.

This is observable in the adjective that is so frequently used to describe the Spirit in the NT; the word 'Holy'. [b]The phrase 'Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost' is used 94 times in the NT[/b] (Matt 1:18,20; 3:11; 12:31-32; 28:19; Mark 1:8; 3:29; 12:36; 13:11; Luke 1:15,35,41,67; 2:25-26; 3:16,22; 4:1; 11:13; 12:10,12; John 1:33; 7:39; 14:26; 20:22; Acts 1:2,5,8,16; 2:4,33,38; 4:8,31; 5:3,32; 6:3,5; 7:51,55; 8:15,17-19; 9:17,31; 10:38,44-45,47; 11:15-16,24; 13:2,4,9,52; 15:8,28; 16:6; 19:2,6; 20:23,28; 21:11; 28:25; Rom 5:5; 9:1; 14:17; 15:13,16; 1Cor 2:13; 6:19; 12:3; 2Cor 6:6; 13:14; Eph 1:13; 4:30; 1Th 1:5-6; 4:8; 2Tim 1:14; Titus 3:5; Heb 2:4; 3:7; 6:4; 9:8; 10:15; 1Pet 1:12; 2Pet 1:21; 1John 5:7; Jude 1:20`)

[b]...but only 3 times in the OT[/b]
[color=0000ff]“Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy [u]holy spirit[/u] from me.

But they rebelled, and vexed his [u]holy Spirit[/u]: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his [u]holy Spirit[/u] within him?”
(Psa 51:11; Is 63:10-11 KJVS)[/color]

The ASV captures the sense of the Isaiah passage better: [color=0000ff]“But they rebelled, and grieved his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? [u]where is he that put his holy Spirit in the midst of them[/u]?” (Is 63:10-11 ASV)[/color]

In each occasion in the OT the phrase "Holy Spirit" is used in contrast to the 'unholy behaviour' of the OT saint.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/9/29 15:26Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
When the OT enabling was needed on the 'inside' in creative activity the Spirit was on the 'inside' but as a Spirit who empowered and equipped the OT saint to do his job. The NT emphasis on the 'indwelling Spirit' is not empowerment of 'ministry' but 'empowerment of 'life'. This is why the phrase Spirit of Christ is a synonym for the phrase Holy Spirit. The life that was witnessed in the person of Christ is now communicated to the NT saint in the person of the Holy Spirit.




Was the writer of Psalm 119 empowered only to write the word of God or live according to the righteousness that God worked in him?

In other words, can one write the word of God without first knowing the "life" that creates salvation for the individual?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/30 8:08Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

In Psalm 119 we hear these words...

17 Deal bountifully with Your servant,
That I may live and keep Your word.
18 Open my eyes, that I may see
Wondrous things from Your law.
19 I am a stranger in the earth;
Do not hide Your commandments from me.

Do you believe God answers this man's prayers?


24 Your testimonies also are my delight
And my counselors.
25 My soul clings to the dust;
Revive me according to Your word.
26 I have declared my ways, and You answered me;
Teach me Your statutes.
27 Make me understand the way of Your precepts;
So shall I meditate on Your wonderful works.
28 My soul melts from heaviness;
Strengthen me according to Your word.
29 Remove from me the way of lying,
And grant me Your law graciously.

Here this man calls on the Lord to remove sin in his life. By what means does God accomplish this?

33 Teach me, O LORD, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
35 Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.

Can a man who is living according to the law of Moses know these things?

Does this man speak of time?

49 Remember the word to Your servant,
Upon which You have caused me to hope.
50 This is my comfort in my affliction,
For Your word has given me life.

Is this not the definition of faith...in verse 49 we hear of God's promise to this man...in verse 50 we hear that the word of God has given him life.

What is the outcome of this promise?


Psa. 119:40 Behold, I long for Your precepts;
Revive me in Your righteousness.

Who is the dispenser of this rigtheousness?

Psa. 119:154 Plead my cause and redeem me;
Revive me according to Your word.

Who is the only One according to Scripture that is able to plead this man's cause?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/1 6:19Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
In other words, can one write the word of God without first knowing the "life" that creates salvation for the individual?


Balaam and Caiaphas spring to mind.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/10/2 6:47Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

This is just a small picture of what the Law cannot do. The Law itself is perfect, but the one trying to keep the Law is not perfect and a non-perfect being cannot keep the Law unto salvation. The Law was never meant to give salvation, it was only to make upright before God. The only One who did keep the Law perfect before God was Jesus Christ making Him the only One that fulfilled the Law to become upright and capable of giving Himself a spotless Lamb as the only sacrifice God could receive for the sins of all law breakers. That is why we were chose in Christ before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

His death became the only living being that could offer salvation because He was justified before God to offer the only sacrifice the Father could accept for sin and separation From Him, making salvation and bringing men back to God that they might be son's by the Son whom God now gives his son's the same Seed that was perfect before Him in Love, so much that it pleased The Father of Jesus Christ to kill Him a perfect sacrifice so He could have son's in His House. But, it is not good for those that did the killing, because they would not believe what this Son was saying and doing to prove to them that He was the Son and would give them reconciliation with the One that wanted to be their Father, they would not.

Now, how can this Son make these son's be the ones that would hear what He was saying. The Father must draw them and give them to the only Son that could make them wise, righteous, redeemed and sanctified to becomes son's of God? He would put His Son's Spirit in them and the old spirit of their father the devil would be put out. That is why "The Word Himself" is stronger than any two edged sword and separates the soul and spirit and body. Giving the Spirit of Christ to our spirit making us One in Christ Jesus, then giving the Holy Spirit to our soul mind, that we might know that we are now son's of God, by the renewing of our mind to the mind of Christ that has been given us at the birth of Christ in us, thus Born Again, also quickened in our mortal bodies to now contain the specific presence of God in Christ Jesus and being taught by the Holy Spirit which is now the Church of the Holy Spirit, this temple we live in, which some day will be just like the temple of God in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ our Spirit life, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our minds, and a quickened body which when planted will be just like the Body of Jesus Christ, the Perfect Corn of Wheat, that we now have and are only waiting to be planted to be just like that wonderful resurrected Body of Christ. Jhn 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

We are this corn of wheat walking around in quickened bodies with the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit in us. That is our glory, this great mystery that no person had ever seen or heard before it was revealed to Paul. Colossians 1:26-27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The word autos is not just "to his saints", but is much more than that; The baffling wind:

846. autos
Search for G846 in KJVSL
autoV autos ow-tos'

from the particle au (perhaps akin to the base of 109 through the idea of a baffling wind) (backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the comparative 1438) of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons:--her, it(-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, (self-), the) same, ((him-, my-, thy- )self, (your-)selves, she, that, their(-s), them(-selves), there(-at, - by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with), they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which.

"To His saints" is not even hear, but should be rendered together in His saints.

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

"The sound thereof" is the same word "autos" the baffling wind of the Born Again in Christ Jesus. "Christ In you the Hope of Glory"

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/10/2 15:05Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Genesis 17:4-8 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

If you look at who is going to make Abraham who he is and what he will be, it certainly is not Abraham. God said, "I will", or "I made", this is what God put into Abraham, not because of his faith because he had not faith to believe God in anything God said. None of us have this faith. Man is given a measure of faith when he is born and all of us have it, but none us can use it to believe God unless God gives us a faith to believe Him. That is why Abraham could believe God and it was counted to him as faith unto righteousness.

Now concerning the faith of the believer in Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God. We never had the faith to believe either, that is why the Holy Spirit was sent to convict man, that he might know that he had need of a Savior. Once this conviction strikes a spark in the faith that all mankind are given, then that spark begins to bring the faith to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and by believing, then we receive the Seed, and Christ now becomes the faith of the Son of God. Christos Pistis; Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ (((:))) nevertheless I live ; yet not I , but Christ liveth in me : and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith ((())) of the Son of God , who loved me , and gave himself for me .

Christos is self explanatory. Pistis is This faith of God in the Son giving us new life after being crucified with Christ and resurrected with Him and Jesus now by birth being our new life, "the life I now live I live by the Faith of the Son of God".

God made Abraham righteousness by putting faith in him to allow him to believe what God was saying. That is why it was counted to him as righteousness, it was not his own faith or his own righteousness it was the faith of God by saying "I will". Now for those that are in Christ, who has been made our righteousness? It is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. This is a different process, "I will" and "God has made", what has God made? 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus , who of God is made unto us wisdom , and righteousness , and sanctification , and redemption : That , according as it is written , He that glorieth , let him glory in the Lord .

Of Him, again "autos" the same baffling wind that it takes to be born again. Of the Holy Spirit are you in Christ Jesus. "Who of God has been made wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. Abraham's faith was the faith of God by the "I will" and counted as righteousness to Abraham not made righteousness by God in Christ. Jesus Christ is in the new believer after the Cross and it is His Faith that we now live by, not Abraham's faith or Abraham's righteousness. It is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This working is His working which works in all of us mightily if we rightly divide the word of God and know that it is Christ in us that will do all the works if we just allow Him to.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Hbr 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

And most of all; Hbr 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him.

Act 17:28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.

By this; Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

From Paul:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

This is what we will be judged by, not our sin but who we have become in Christ Jesus, son's of God.

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. "Which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory"


If God can make a donkey talk then he can make any being write what He wants.

IN Christ, what a statement: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/10/2 21:04Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
Balaam and Caiaphas spring to mind.



If ones reads the example given to us of Balaam's sin, wouldn't we see a perfect illustration in Jesus's teaching in the parable of the sower?

Mark 4:

18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Was not Balaam a prophet of God? The peoples of his time recognized him as such...

In terms of the example given to us in Scripture of the life of Caiaphas, my question to you is:

What law did he follow, the law of Moses or the law of the Talmud?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/3 1:19Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:



Quote:
Now, how can this Son make these son's be the ones that would hear what He was saying. The Father must draw them and give them to the only Son that could make them wise, righteous, redeemed and sanctified to becomes son's of God? He would put His Son's Spirit in them and the old spirit of their father the devil would be put out.




This explaination you wrote here reminds me of this section of Scripture...

1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”

Zech. 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel.

Zech. 3:4 Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, “Take away the filthy garments from him.” And to him He said, “See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.”

Zech. 3:5 And I said, “Let them put a clean turban on his head.”

So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him. And the Angel of the LORD stood by.

Zech. 3:6 Then the Angel of the LORD admonished Joshua, saying, 7 “Thus says the LORD of hosts:
‘If you will walk in My ways,
And if you will keep My command,
Then you shall also judge My house,
And likewise have charge of My courts;
I will give you places to walk
Among these who stand here.

Do you see the remarkable parallel in Scripture of what you wrote above?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/3 2:15Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
If you look at who is going to make Abraham who he is and what he will be, it certainly is not Abraham. God said, "I will", or "I made", this is what God put into Abraham, not because of his faith because he had not faith to believe God in anything God said. None of us have this faith. Man is given a measure of faith when he is born and all of us have it, but none us can use it to believe God unless God gives us a faith to believe Him. That is why Abraham could believe God and it was counted to him as faith unto righteousness.



When God promises to be God to Abraham and to each generation after Abraham, for an everlasting covenant, what covenant could that only be?

For as you said above, it is God who must do. By what means does He accomplish this work in Abraham, and in each generation that follows Abraham?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/10/3 2:21Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy