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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : OT Indwelling

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letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 OT Indwelling

Brothers,

I keep coming across Scriptures that make me lean towards the indwelling being possible before the cross.

2 Sam 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

Psalm 74:2b this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

1 Peter 1:10b-11a the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time [b]the Spirit of Christ which was in them[/b] did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ

I understand the modern theology concerning the indwelling. I would like to know where in the Scriptures it it shown that the OT saints did not have the indwelling. Also are there any giants of the faith that discussed this thought?

After a quick look, Lewis Sperry Chafer said that the OT saints had the indwelling, but that He did not make the saints His abode, but came and left as He saw fit (that would fill in some blanks).

Looks like some others say he did abide in the OT saints.

Wow. And another; AW Pink: "It is a great mistake to say, as many have done, that the Holy Spirit was never in any believer before Pentecost"

This should open up a can of worms.

All comments welcome.


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Hal Bachman

 2006/9/28 23:58Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re: OT Indwelling

2Sa 23:2

Verse 2. "His word", That is; The following words, and consequently the other words and Psalms composed and uttered by me upon like occasions, are not to be looked upon as human inventions, but both the intent and the words of them are suggested by God's Spirit, the great Penman of The Word upon Israel and The Great Comforter and Writer also the Teacher in the Body of Christ; The old testament with and upon, The New Testament, in you, The Power an Sealer of our Salvation in Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/9/29 3:45Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: OT Indwelling

Why don't we see if we can create a fairly comprehensive list of such occurences and then see if we can discern a pattern. Here's are some to get us started.

[color=0000ff]“All the while my breath is in me, and [u]the spirit of God is in my nostrils[/u];” (Job 27:3 KJVS)

“And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, [u]a man in whom the Spirit of God is[/u]?” (Gen 41:38 KJVS)

“And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: And [u]I have filled him with the spirit of God[/u], in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.” (Ex 31:1-5 KJVS)

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, [u]a man in whom is the spirit[/u], and lay thine hand upon him;” (Num 27:18 KJVS)

“The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.” (2Sam 23:2 KJVS)

“And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. And [u]the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.[/u] And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.” (Ezek 2:1-3 KJVS)

“O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that [u]the spirit of the holy gods is in thee[/u], and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.” (Dan 4:9 KJVS) & v18, 5:11

“Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them [u]by thy spirit in thy prophets[/u]: yet would they not give ear: therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands.” (Neh 9:30 KJVS)[/color]

No teaching of the person and work of the Spirit can ignore this kind of evidence. Are there others?


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Ron Bailey

 2006/9/29 3:55Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

None of these are the Filling Pentecostal Holy Spirit that is in the Body of Christ forever. They are as the breath of God in Adam. Coming upon and with them and not the indwelling Holy Spirit "in you."

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/9/29 4:56Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: OT Indwelling

Letsgetbusy wrote:

Quote:
I keep coming across Scriptures that make me lean towards the indwelling being possible before the cross.



I encourage you to continue to listen, and accept what the Holy Spirit is showing you.

Look for the evidence of God's grace in the lives of the OT saints. There is only one means by which God has ever changed men's hearts. There is only one means by which God has given His righteousness to the OT saints.

And the Holy One of Israel is the One who established righteousness in the OT saints.


Listen to what Scripture is speaking to you, there you will find the treasure that transforms the substance of what we hope for...


There will be others who look for definitions and the presence or absence of words in Scripture, and thus will say yea or nay to any particular subject. Yet it must always come down to the fact that all men find themselves in total depravity. And therefore it is God who must release them from that depravity.

Look for the evidence of God's promise in the OT saints lives, and not the word groups people depend on to write doctrines....

God Bless

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/29 4:57Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
None of these are the Filling Pentecostal Holy Spirit that is in the Body of Christ forever. They are as the breath of God in Adam. Coming upon and with them and not the indwelling Holy Spirit "in you."


I agree with you but how then are we to understand these many references to the "Spirit in you"? We can't just ignore these references.

One of the evidences we have to factor into our answer is that the disciples, including Judas, were commissioned to...[color=0000ff]“And as you go, preach, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.” (Matt 10:7-8 NKJV)[/color] and that even though the disciples had known the Spirit a new experience awaited them...[color=0000ff]...“ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:17 KJVS)[/color]

Somehow our understanding has to accommodate all this data. We cannot afford to omit the bits which don't fit our theory.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/9/29 6:32Profile
HeartSong
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Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re: OT Indwelling

John (KJV)
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which [u][b]baptizeth[/u] (immerse)[/b] with the Holy Ghost.

Enliven? Water the seed.

 2006/9/29 7:24Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Enliven? Water the seed.


Can you expand a bit?


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Ron Bailey

 2006/9/29 9:48Profile
mamaluk
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Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Ron,

I tend to agree with Christinyou that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the N.T. saints in Chirist is "forever".

John 14:16
16And I will pray the Father, and He [b]shall [/b]give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you [b]for ever[/b], this precedes your quote on John 14:17.

The indwelling in the O.T. saints seemed to be temporal and work specific.







 2006/9/29 10:09Profile
HeartSong
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Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Enliven, water the seed.

I am still trying to put the pieces together.

The spirit part of us that died (went to sleep) when sin entered - because of the Fall . . .

When we believe on our Lord Jesus the seed is planted (to wake up our spirit) . . . the seed that Satan tries to snatch away.

After the seed is planted, through Jesus, the Holy Spirit Baptizes (waters - awakens, nourishes) . . .

But this is not possible until Jesus is Glorified, so in OT times the Spirit would be on dry ground (no seed), so while He could be in them, they could not be in Him (thier spirit is not yet awakened).

Somehow we are the Tree of Life (the tree that withers and dies if it does not bear fruit), planted beside (being sustained by) the River of Life (the Holy Spirit). Rev 22:1-2
--- No, Jesus would have to be the Tree of Life - we are only the branches - the branches bear the fruit - only through Him are we nourished - only through Him do we live - and only through the fruit (of the branches, having the seed within them) do others come to Christ!

I may have this all mixed up - please straighten me out if I do.

 2006/9/29 11:24Profile





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