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tinluke
Member



Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA

 Re:

Not sure if this would apply, but the Lord gave me a great teaching on this very subject about a year ago. I actually think it's quite simple.

We all know that right NOW is the midnight hour. We've all heard the call go out and we're waking up. The wise virgins are the ones who go to JESUS. He is the only ONE who can fill our lamps to the very top!! Abundance comes from HIM and HIM alone. Anything else is insufficient to say the least. The foolish virgins go to others for their oil. They go to "snakeoil salesmen" and others who are selling imitation oil. The "fake" oil burns out almost as soon as they receive it. That is why when the Bridegroom comes they don't have any oil. Only the oil that comes from HIM is everlasting!!


_________________
tina

 2006/9/28 20:37Profile
tinluke
Member



Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA

 Re:

Just another thought... Jesus is not coming back with a measuring rod. He isn't going to say "Well your lamp is nice and full and yours isn't." He is coming back for those who know HIM and love HIM.


_________________
tina

 2006/9/28 20:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:

OverSeer wrote:
Ormly wrote:
Quote:
The analogy speaks for itself, requiring no further "indepth" study..

You speak for yourself and have no further scripture to support your eisegesis http://www.creationists.org/eisegesis.html
Quote:
They all had oil IN their lamps when they set out.

"They that were foolish took their lamps, [b]and took no oil with them[/b]" (Matthew 25:3). What part of "took no oil with them" do you not understand? Even by implication it is obvious that they did not set out with oil in their lamps because the lamps were not being used until the cry that came at midnight (v.6). Instead of being out and about as light bearers, "they all slumbered and slept" (v.5). Pretty hard to burn out your oil when you are sleeping and your lamp isn't lit!
Quote:
They all had oil IN their lamps when they set out.

Would Jesus tell us that they took no oil with them when they did? No! This is a classic case of eisegesis - reading into the text what isn't there in order to support an existing belief or understanding!

Grace and peace
Olan



They took no EXTRA oil consequently their lamps WERE IN NEED OF SOME.

Quote:
Would Jesus tell us that they took no oil with them when they did? No! This is a classic case of eisegesis - reading into the text what isn't there in order to support an existing belief or understanding!



No, you are demonstrating a classical, poor, rendering of a text to support a particular bent..

From Phillips:

[i]25:1-13 - "In those days the kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were sensible and five were foolish. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. But the sensible ones brought their lamps and oil in their flasks [b]as well[/b].[/i]

From the Amplified:

[i]1THEN THE kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
2Five of them were foolish (thoughtless, without forethought) and five were wise (sensible, intelligent, and prudent).

3For when the foolish took their lamps, they did not take any [extra] oil with them;

4But the wise took flasks of oil along with them [also] with their lamps.[/i]

Be that as it may, how does one "trim" a lamp that, in your estimation, is not lighted?

C'mon, common sense in this should be sufficient.

Not only that but the important thing is, this pertains to the kingdom of God/heaven. Alter it as implied and you strip it of its true significance for the new born of Christ.



:-(

 2006/9/29 7:32









 Re:

Quote:

tinluke wrote:
Just another thought... Jesus is not coming back with a measuring rod. He isn't going to say "Well your lamp is nice and full and yours isn't." He is coming back for those who know HIM and love HIM.



And the proof of that will be revealed to Him as what?

:-o

 2006/9/29 7:39
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the finality of it all

Wow, interesting to return and see how a discussion developed – quite different from what was on my mind.

I read some good comments in my Matthew Henry, but have chosen not to go there. At this point I’d rather try to grasp what Jesus is trying to say to a general group of people, not to the Bible experts who have commentaries, including magnifying glasses with which to read them. Rather than zoom in, I’d like to zoom out and see how this passage falls into the general Biblical narrative of Jesus’ teachings about the future.

Absorption in fine details can be like a group of Bible students on the Titanic discussing the finer theological aspects of ‘When the Roll is Called Up Yonder’ when “Up Yonder” is in five minutes. Without an understanding of the bigger picture, you might get sunk.

Philologos said:

Quote:
We have to be careful not to try too hard to map every part of a parable to a truth. Allegories are like that but not parables. These 'virgins' were simply 'young women' and thoughts of 'separation' to their one man does not come into this parable.

but then I don't think this oil or its absence has anything to do with the Holy Spirit. It is simply an illustration of unpreparedness.


A few of the ideas I expressed came from a friend who heard them in a sermon. I’m glad someone here is nudging us back to balance. I’ll pass your word on. I admit, if I were to rewrite the initial post, it would be quite different, including the title. Yet – I do feel that the various ideas can be drawn from other Biblical passages – chiefly that there will be many who are trying hard to make it into the kingdom, are righteous people, look very Christian, hang out with the ones who have the Spirit, and live a vicarious faith - by faith in the faith of true Believers. However, when the night comes, they will not be able to endure – because they don’t have what it takes, specifically the Spirit of Christ as their life-source.

In my Bible I have highlighted what I feel are the key verses in Jesus’ teachings about the future:

“Only those who endure to the end will be saved.” Matt. 24:13 It is futile to belabor the dead-end OSAS discussion, when such words as these are repeated over and over again in the Word. If in the end you don’t have what it takes (Oil/Spirit), you won’t be able to endure the darkness. And you won’t get into heaven. And it is very possible to be deceived about one's standing with God. Many are! That fact is Biblical.

The coming judgment is a very important theme – along with an absolute finality of time and space – all that is created: “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Mat. 24:35


In the Bible, I find no hint of any second chance after Christ's return – no time after the Christians are supposedly secretly whisked away for the unconverted to repent. It is dangerous to build theological buffers into God’s Word. One can fail to recognize this pitfall when he is too absorbed in lesser details.

…. That’s just a few thoughts for now..

Diane




_________________
Diane

 2006/9/29 10:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
Wow, interesting to return and see how a discussion developed – quite different from what was on my mind.

I read some good comments in my Matthew Henry, but have chosen not to go there. At this point I’d rather try to grasp what Jesus is trying to say to a general group of people, not to the Bible experts who have commentaries, including magnifying glasses with which to read them. Rather than zoom in, I’d like to zoom out and see how this passage falls into the general Biblical narrative of Jesus’ teachings about the future.

Absorption in fine details can be like a group of Bible students on the Titanic discussing the finer theological aspects of ‘When the Roll is Called Up Yonder’ when “Up Yonder” is in five minutes. Without an understanding of the bigger picture, you might get sunk.

Philologos said:
Quote:
We have to be careful not to try too hard to map every part of a parable to a truth. Allegories are like that but not parables. These 'virgins' were simply 'young women' and thoughts of 'separation' to their one man does not come into this parable.

but then I don't think this oil or its absence has anything to do with the Holy Spirit. It is simply an illustration of unpreparedness.


A few of the ideas I expressed came from a friend who heard them in a sermon. I’m glad someone here is nudging us back to balance. I’ll pass your word on. I admit, if I were to rewrite the initial post, it would be quite different, including the title. Yet – I do feel that the various ideas can be drawn from other Biblical passages – chiefly that there will be many who are trying hard to make it into the kingdom, are righteous people, look very Christian, hang out with the ones who have the Spirit, and live a vicarious faith - by faith in the faith of true Believers. However, when the night comes, they will not be able to endure – because they don’t have what it takes, specifically the Spirit of Christ as their life-source.

In my Bible I have highlighted what I feel are the key verses in Jesus’ teachings about the future:

“Only those who endure to the end will be saved.” Matt. 24:13 It is futile to belabor the dead-end OSAS discussion, when such words as these are repeated over and over again in the Word. If in the end you don’t have what it takes (Oil/Spirit), you won’t be able to endure the darkness. And you won’t get into heaven. And it is very possible to be deceived about one's standing with God. Many are! That fact is Biblical.

The coming judgment is a very important theme – along with an absolute finality of time and space – all that is created: “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Mat. 24:35


In the Bible, I find no hint of any second chance after Christ's return – no time after the Christians are supposedly secretly whisked away for the unconverted to repent. It is dangerous to build theological buffers into God’s Word. One can fail to recognize this pitfall when he is too absorbed in lesser details.

…. That’s just a few thoughts for now..

Diane







And as to how all that pertains to the virgins and the kingdom of God is what?

 2006/9/29 10:35
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7468
Mississippi

 Re:

Diane wrote:

Quote:
Absorption in fine details can be like a group of Bible students on the Titanic discussing the finer theological aspects of ‘When the Roll is Called Up Yonder’ when “Up Yonder” is in five minutes.



Diane, mind if I be a tad bit irreverent here? When I read this it made me laugh!! The analogy is so true!

Mind if I expand a tad bit on it? While they were spitting hairs, all of a sudden the ship started to sink and what did they say? That it was scientically impossible?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/9/29 10:45Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Yet – I do feel that the various ideas can be drawn from other Biblical passages – chiefly that there will be many who are trying hard to make it into the kingdom, are righteous people, look very Christian, hang out with the ones who have the Spirit, and live a vicarious faith - by faith in the faith of true Believers. However, when the night comes, they will not be able to endure – because they don’t have what it takes, specifically the Spirit of Christ as their life-source.



This brings to mind these verses...
Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness. But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever. I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.
(Psa 52:7-9)
David was like a green olive tree, aware of his anointing and the continuous flow of oil. This is the kind of anointing we need. We have so many tapes and books and teachings, even on this very site, and they are wonderful. But we need to find our own anointing and sink our own deep roots. Taking part in the anointing of others is a blessed thing but if we're going to stand in the hour of crisis we must have our own resource.

Another example I think of is in Genesis 28-29. Jacob had to venture out on his own and learn to trust in the Lord. He had lived previously in the overflow of Abraham and Isaac's anointing, now he had to move beyond that. The God of his fathers had to become HIS God.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2006/9/29 12:14Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
David was like a green olive tree, aware of his anointing and the continuous flow of oil. This is the kind of anointing we need. We have so many tapes and books and teachings, even on this very site, and they are wonderful. But we need to find our own anointing and sink our own deep roots. Taking part in the anointing of others is a blessed thing but if we're going to stand in the hour of crisis we must have our own resource.



[color=0000ff]“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took [u]their[/u] lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took [u]their[/u] lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with [u]their[/u] lamps.” (Matt 25:1-4 KJVS)[/color]

Surely one of the things that this parable is drawing attention to is personal responsibility. Edersheim speculates that the 'foolish virgins' may have been expecting to replenish their lamps from the 'communal supply' at the venue for the wedding.

'anointing' isn't the language I would personally use in this context but the point is well made.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/9/29 15:01Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
but we need to find our own anointing and sink our own deep roots. Taking part in the anointing of others is a blessed thing but if we're going to stand in the hour of crisis we must have our own resource.


To me this best reflects my initial thought when I read the parable - referring to our need for the Spirit-giving Life.

The Christian resources available to us are much like the pillar of fire and the cloud, the manna in the desert, the oil. They are an indication that our Lord is/has been working among us, and shining his glory - but they don’t carry us across the Jordan.

Ormly asked:
Quote:
as to how all that pertains to the virgins and the kingdom of God is what?


The kingdom of heaven is all about God’s mercy towards mankind. He is not willing that any should perish. And that’s why Jesus told the parables. It seems like most of them were especially addressed to those most resistant to divine mercy – those who were convinced that they were ready to meet their Maker – those foolish virgins. Each one of us must at some point face the naked truth about our own spiritual neediness - apart from any vices.


Quote:
all of a sudden the ship started to sink and what did they say? That it was scientically impossible?



They were correct, but only partially: They did not think about the possibility of icebergs. In their blindness, they didn’t bother to install enough life rafts.

Today many have no clue about ancient wedding practises, but they know something about the present world. The Titanic is a very appropriate divine picture lesson for our modern society: Have your own “life preserver”, and don’t count on someone else’s.

I wonder what other pictures lessons God has placed in our world. After all, he is not willing that any should perish.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/9/29 15:08Profile





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