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andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 willow creek

My pastor went to a willow creek confrence hosted by bill hybles, should i be worried?, does any one one have 1st hand accounts of his teachings or preaching and does Hybles hang out with rick warren? just asking


_________________
andy

 2006/9/27 21:47Profile
Smokey
Member



Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re: willow creek



These are all involved with the Mega Church movement (purpose driven). Learn what you can about this movement, and the beliefs of these teachers. There is a vast amount of information available on the net, start checking it out.

Blessings Greg


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Greg

 2006/9/27 22:19Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Here's a link to a site that has a good amount of info.

[url=http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/index.html]Lighthouse Trails[/url]

I would be a little concerned, but maybe you should talk to him about it. Poke around a bit and see if he is leaning toward the beliefs of Mr Hybels.
The concern I have is that Mr. Hybels recently said that he believes that Bono is a Christian, and has no question about his spiritual standing.
I would be curious as to why Bono also spoke at their pastors conference recently.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/9/27 22:56Profile









 Re:

I remember the thread about that "leadership conference," and someone else brought up the falseness of Bono's Christianity. I am not sure why? What charges are there against Bono?

-K DAY

 2006/9/28 0:58
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

You know I cannot say much about him. I was going to post an interview that he recently did about his "faith", but there was a bit of profanity in it.
As for the link I provided, there is only a little bit about Willow Creek on there.
Maybe I am wrong on this, but I tend to stay away from Mr. Hybels, and Mr. Warren as I always get a check in my spirit when they come up.
Better to stick with the tried and true such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John maybe you know these gentlemen? :-P


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patrick heaviside

 2006/9/28 1:28Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I found these comments
"To have faith in a time of religious fervor is a worry. And, you know, I do have faith, and I'm worried about even the subject because of the sort of fanaticism that is the next-door neighbor of faith. [b]The trick in the next few years will be not to decry the religious instinct, but to accept that this is a hugely important part of people's lives. And at the same time to be very wary of people who believe that theirs is the only way.[/b] Unilateralism before God is dangerous."

"Religion is ceremony and symbolism. Writers live off symbolism, and performers live off ceremony. We're made for religion! And yet you see this country, Ireland, ripped over religion, and you see the Middle East. [b]Right now, unless tolerance comes with fervor, you'll see it in the United States."[/b]
--Bono in The New York Times

"I find solace in places I never could have imagined: the quiet sprinkling of my child's head in Baptism, a gospel choir drunk on the Holy Spirit in Memphis, or the back of a catherdral in Rome watching the first cinematographers play with light and colour in stained glass stories of the Passion. I am still amazed at how big, how enormous the love and mystery of God is -- and how small are the minds that attempt to corral this life force into rules and taboos, cults, and sects."
--Bono, from the forward of Adam Harbinson's "They've Hijacked God"

I think Bono is more of a "universalist" in his theology as in everyones' beliefs are ok so long as they help the poor, and those with AIDS.
I do not think he should be addressing church leadership attendees because noone really knows about the genuineness of his conversion.
Make of it what you will.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/9/28 1:46Profile









 Re:

Oh yes he is a universalist.
Concerning his salvation if he ever was really saved he has fallen FAR from the true faith. Watching " Rattle & Hum" alone can convince any born again that U2 is not christian. But in the your o.k. I'm o.k. , were all sinners, that's your opinion crowd...well u2 is welcome in the church anyday of the week.
sincerly, John

 2006/9/28 2:01









 Re:

I actually really don't think that Bono is a universalist. I know he has certainly said some off things, but I don't want to be hasty in my judgement of him based on a few quotes that I dont understand the context of. Here is a repost of mine about Bono from a previous thread:



Also, I am curious if anyone else has any more information on U2's Bono. I myself am not so quick to call him a universalist. Sure, he doesn't belong at a leadership conferences (he has never tried to fit the Christian mold, which is probably part of the negative reaction he gets from many Christians).

With all of the Christ-centered lyrics he puts out, and numerous quotations I have heard from him, it is kind of hard for me to question his fatih. Recently there was a book put out in which he was interviewed by Michka Assayas and asked a lot of questions about his faith:

Quote:

The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That’s the point, it should keep us humbled... It’s not our own good works that gets us through the gates of Heaven.



Quote:

It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between grace and karma.



(Explaining the karma vs. grace issue)
Quote:

What you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics — in physical laws — every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called grace to upend all that 'as you reap, so you will sow' stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love
interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff. . .. It doesn't excuse my mistakes, but I'm holding out for grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't have to depend on my own religiosity.



(When an interviewer suggests that calling Christ the son of God is far-fetched)
Quote:

"But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off the hook. Christ says: No I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me a teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet. I’m saying: 'I’m the Messiah.' I’m saying: 'I am God
incarnate.'... So what you’re left with is: either Christ was who he said he was – the Messiah – or a complete nutcase. I mean we’re talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson."




Finally, and most importantly, my biggest reason to doubt that Bono is a universalist could be based on a substantial misquote. My best friend has attended U2 concerts on two different occasions, and he said each time, Bono chanted:

"Jesus, Jew, Mohammed, it's true - all sons of Abraham."

Certainly this is quite a difference than, "it's all true."

Anyways, when seen this way, I think it's pretty clear that Bono is not saying that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are "all true." He's saying that all of their adherents are sons of Abraham, and that they all have a common bond because of this fact.

I think this makes more sense given the "Coexist" slogan - the word coexist does not suggest agreement (at least to me, it suggests peaceful disagreement). And I think it makes more sense given Bono's track record when it comes to how he talks about his faith.

Bono is far from perfect. He has never even tried to be the stereotypical Christian. He drinks (although not alot, I hear), curses, and doesn't attend church. To me, this only says that he doesn't belong teaching Christian leadership seminars - no that his heart does not confess Jesus as saviour.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

-K DAY

 2006/9/28 2:13









 Re:

Perhaps i was to careless in proclaiming universalist and expecting what I meant to be understood.
I do not mean universalist in the strict definition but rather mainly from the standpoint of a were all going to make it somehow way.

His understanding of grace is typical of the grace means mercy understanding.
Grace is not mercy though mercy is contained in grace.
Grace according to Strongs is,"divine influence on the heart and it's reflection out into our life. take this defnition and couple it with Paul in Titus chapter 2 where he says Grace "teaches us" that denying ungodliness and worldy lust we should live sober and Godly and righteous in this present age.

Now back to Bono. Simply put, if I were to talk with him I would search him with questions to attempt to help restore him to the "narrow" way as opposed to the were all kinda saying the same thing just a little diffrent mentality. Also to repent of all his known sinful habit's and to see them for what they really are.

But the main point of this thread is willow creek as a whole. Bill Hybels is one of many who rubs shoulders with the likes of Bill Clinton, He was Bill Clintons spiritual advisor during his presidency and Bono etc. In these relationships compromise is usualy what happens. Kinda like with Billy Graham. i'm not saying avoid dignitaries etc. But when you are a pastor you need to have NO Compromise on your forhead!

God bless, John

 2006/9/28 6:51









 Re:

I have been looking into PDL and trying to undestand what contemplative spirituality is. On my research into the PDL i keep running into the same names as Foster. I hear so much is wrong with their teaching which is why im looking into. I am shocked by what i've learned so far but still far from understanding it all. I don't want to be decieved so am going deeper into the word as i have read books by these authors.
When i went on the Lighthouse link i saw this:

Quote:
Does Amazon.com Know Something Christians Don't Know?
Amazon.com has paired the new Be Still DVD with a New Age movie, What the Bleep Do We Know?

Frequently, Amazon.com pairs together titles of books or DVDs with those of similar content or nature. The Be Still DVD is no exception, except that instead of pairing it with a Christian film Amazon has paired it with a pro-New Age, interspiritual film called What the Bleep Do We know? (connected with Global Peace activists Marianne Williamson and Walter Cronkite).

It looks like Amazon has the jump on many Christians in this case - they figured out the nature of the Be Still DVD before Christian leaders and many Christians have.

[url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E6ES94/qid=1145465798/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0683477-5363910?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130]Click here to see the two DVDs together.[/url]
It's interesting and cannot be overlooked.

 2006/9/28 7:16





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