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hmmhmm
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Sweden

 GOD hates sin , but loves the sinner?

i hear this often, so i thought about it.... now i can see many verses that say god loves us, but i recently heard a paul washer sermon... and i heard ravenhilll say something like this to... that it isent so, do anyone know any verses that say god acctaly hates people that do sin?

christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/21 23:15Profile
mamaluk
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 Re: GOD hates sin , but loves the sinner?

Ps 11:5, Ps 5:5, Ps 139:21-22 Prov 8:13 Mal 1:3

just some of them

 2006/9/21 23:19Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re: GOD hates sin , but loves the sinner?

ahhh found it myself :)

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

maybe theres more...

christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/21 23:22Profile
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 Re:

Perhaps we can narrow it down this way: either you are hated by God or the world. choose a side.

"And ye shall be [b]hated of all men[/b] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." -Matthew 10:22

"Ye adulters and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a [b]friend of the world is the enemy of God[/b]." -James 4:4


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 2006/9/21 23:33Profile
Logic
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 Re: GOD hates sin , but loves the sinner?

Quote:

hmmhmm wrote:
i hear this often, so i thought about it.... now i can see many verses that say god loves us, but i recently heard a paul washer sermon... and i heard ravenhilll say something like this to... that it isent so, do anyone know any verses that say god acctaly hates people that do sin?

christian

Psalms 5:5 The boasters shall not set themselves before Your eyes. You hate all workers of iniquity.

Psalms 11:5 Jehovah tries the righteous, but His soul hates the wicked and the one loving violence.

Pro 6:16 These six things Jehovah hates; yea, seven are hateful to his soul;...
Prov. 6:19 a false witness who breathes lies, and he who causes strife among brothers.

Hoseah 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. I will drive them out of My house for the wickedness of their doings, I will not add to love them; all their rulers are revolters.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Hebrews 10:31 "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
___________________________________________________________________________________

It is very dificult to seperate the sin from the sinner.
Like homosexuals; they are recognized by their lifestyle, which is there theier sin not to mention the very act.

Actualy, I think that the term sinner is a very bad definition of what it means.
Spiritual death is the reason that people sin. In the same matter, People are not sinners because they sin as much as I am not a dog because I bark like one. However, People sin because they are sinners, as much as all dogs bark because they are dogs.

A sinner (a spiritualy dead person) can't do anythink but sin, even their most noble and sincere acts are tainted by sin.
So, if one sinnes, it doesn't make him a sinner, but being a sinner makes one sin.
Replace "sinner" with "spiritualy dead"

Why does one sin in the first place?

Because "Sinners" are seperated from God(spiritualy dead) and theirefore can not know good exept what there concience knows and consequently can not do good, and therefore they can not follow what they know to do(see Romans 7).
This is because the Law of Sin; when people would think to do good, evil is present with them....moreover, there is another law in their members, warring against the law of their mind(concience) and bringing them into captivity to the law of sin which is in their members.([b]Rom 7:22,24[/b])
[b]Romans 8:2[/b] [color=990000]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/color]

My premiss is that it is not the sin or even the lifestyle that God hates, it is the very fact that they are staying seperatede from Him when He made a way for us to be reconciled to Himself.

This is the very definition of death:
Death in the Bible is always pictured as a separation between two things(Jam 2:26).
It is also a Process that involves corruption or decay(Psa 16:10, Psa 49:9)

Adam died spiritually when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was separated form the true fellowship with God.

Now, death can't bring forth life, so whoever is born of Adam is still spiritually dead. This is why we need to be born again, born of the Spirit.

If one does not recieve eternal life, he remains spiritualy dead, and one is only thrown into hell for dieing in the state of spiritual death

What is Life?
Life is always pictured as a relaitionship with God [b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000]Now this is eternal life: that they shall be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.[/color]
It is also a process that involves growth and repair([b]Psalm 1:3[/b]).

 2006/9/22 10:44Profile
K_DAY
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Posts: 144
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 Re:

Quote:
It is very dificult to seperate the sin from the sinner. Like homosexuals; they are recognized by their lifestyle, which is there theier sin not to mention the very act.



Quote:
My premiss is that it is not the sin or even the lifestyle that God hates, it is the very fact that they are staying seperatede from Him when He made a way for us to be reconciled to Himself.



I think we need some clarification here. In witnessing to poeple whose lives are characterized by seperation and sin, is it erroneous to say to them that the reason Christ died for them is because he loves them and wanted to provide an alternative to the wrath they deserve? John 3:16.

Is the suggestion that we are supposed to love all people (even our enemies) while God secretly hates his? Furthermore, God's love is unconditional. If he hated all sinners and then loved them as soon as they turned to him, does this make him inconsistant?

There has to be a balance. The Bible continually talks about God's righteous anger towards sinners and sin. It also talks about his love for mankind demonstrated by his death for them on the cross. Can god hate them and love them at the same time? What about us? We are to hate what God hates - does that mean men?

Maybe I am missing the point?

-K DAY

 2006/9/22 11:14Profile
RobertW
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 Re: GOD hates sin , but loves the sinner?

Quote:
do anyone know any verses that say god acctaly hates people that do sin?



The other question, I think, is "Will the Lord hate me [u]if[/u] I sin or does the Lord hate me [u]now[/u] because I have sinned?" This is a very serious question. I am afraid that we run the risk of not being able to ultimately survive our own preaching. There are times over my Christian life that I have indeed 'sinned'. I will not accuse anyone else, but I know I have 'sinned' as a believer. Desperate to love God I have stumbled and failed in areas. Just being honest here. Even in the midst of preaching repentance I have not been [i]perfect[/i]. We certainly should teach and preach perfection, but within what frame work? In a Finney theological construct it is one strike and you are out. That is a terrible perception of our relationship with God. I sinned and now God hates me? What misery.

The challenge is to preach perfection without sabotaging our own and others Christian life. This is not a new challenge. My pastor is about 67 years old and is old timey holiness. He gets on to me when I come off too strong and reminds me that everyone but one of the so-called "holiness or hell" preachers he has ever known have backslidden. We have to preach holiness and perfection, but we have to be careful how we do it. If we suggest God hates a person when they sin then we have said that the Father hates the son returning home. Will the son return home to a Father that hates him? Is this an accurate depiction of God? Certainly it is not.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/9/22 11:26Profile
GraceAlone
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 Re:

Psalm 11:5
"The LORD tests the righteous,But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Proverbs 6:16
"These six the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:"

Psalm 5:4-6
"4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.
6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;
The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man."


He hates them in righteousness. In justice he condemns them to hell.

Ezekiel 18:32
"For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord GOD. “Therefore turn and live!”"
_____________________________________________

Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”"

God has no problem calling people what they are. God hates in righteousness.

Job 42:6
"Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes.”

Actually, I think only God is allowed to hate the sinners. He alone is the just Judge. Yet, we should love them as Christ did... tell them of the cross. What more love is there to give? When we stand with God we will be happy to see Him ridding the universe of thier filth. Filth which we were forgiven of. Forgiveness which they have rejected. I mean, I'm open for discussion.

____________________________________________

Spurgeon wrote:

"“Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.” It is not a little dislike, but a thorough hatred which God bears to workers of iniquity. To be hated of God is an awful thing. O let us be very faithful in warning the wicked around us, for it will be a terrible thing for them to fall into the hands of an angry God! Observe, that evil speakers must be punished as well as evil workers, for “thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing.” All liars shall have their portion in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. A man may lie without danger of the law of man, but he will not escape the law of God. Liars have short wings, their flight shall soon be over, and they shall fall into the fiery floods of destruction. “The Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.” Bloody men shall be made drunk with their own blood, and they who began by deceiving others shall end with being deceived themselves. Our old proverb saith, “Bloody and deceitful men dig their own graves.” The voice of the people is in this instance the voice of God. How forcible is the word abhor! Does it not show us how powerful and deep-seated is the hatred of the Lord against the workers of iniquity?".



_______________________________________________
www.cornerstoneorlando.org


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Kristy

 2006/9/22 13:00Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

well i dont think we should confuse gods holy hate whit our sinful hate...witch it is most of the time.... becuse when god hates ...that to is good right? so i dont think gods hate is like our hate...just as our love cant compare whit his love....

and i dont think we should go out screem GOD HATES YOU!!!

but i dont think the "frase" ohh god loves you , he just dosent like your sin... i dont think that is a true statement in light of scripture... his love is often spoken of.... i just think people take the love gospel and run whit that ...and only that.... and when god is all love its easy to forget he has other attributes to... what i meen is people use that frase to excuse peoples sins....try to make them look better, that ohh you just happend to sin..but besides that god is totally ok whit you....




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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/22 13:42Profile
Matthew2323
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 Re:

It should be understood that when we speak of God hating sinners we are speaking of the unrepentant, the reprobate. (Romans 9:11-13)

To the elect, God’s children, He declares, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.” (Jeremiah 31:3)

God’s Spirit my be grieved, He may be angered by our sins and may have to discipline us for our unrepentance (Hebrews 12:5-6), but there is nothing in Scripture to suggest that He hates His own. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus! (Romans 8:31-39)


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Matthew

 2006/9/22 15:21Profile





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