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hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 confused

As i understand the word of god, im saved by grace and grace alone...i dident have anything to do whit it, just gods love and grace , he picked me out before he even made the earth, that i should be saved, now in his word he tells us to go witness.... (i do that) but still his word says not many are going to be saved...and as i understand the bible many are going even to belive they are saved when in fact they are not, but still im going go out there and witness and preach christ...but if god havent chosen them to be saved... it doesent do any good , or does it? i meen jesus says go out to the world... i will obey... but its just if he dident choose them to be saved there is no point in it, i do see that he could have chosen me to be the "deliverer" of the gospel whitch lead the other person to be saved... but i see a little hole here... in meetings the pastors always say god wants everyone to be saved... i know it is there in the bible...but jesus himself said there is not many who will be saved...and it says god chose who should be saved...and often pastors and evangelicals say chose today to be saved...but as i see it we cant really choose anything can we? if im saved its becuse god chose me...and if i have any will in me at all...he put it there... i dont know. i hope you understand my confusion..

can some one point out scripture for me? that will help to understand a little more.

thank you very much
gods peace to you christian


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CHRISTIAN

 2006/9/13 8:18Profile
mega
Member



Joined: 2006/4/28
Posts: 20
Australia, NSW

 Re: confused

the scripture that comes to me is many are called but few are chosen, God does want everyone to be witnessed too and have an opportunity to recieve him, but he knows in the end who will choose him and who will go thier own way, I mean it says in the word that thier will be a great falling away, even those people who have walked with Christ some will end up giving up on God and walking away from the faith, but only God knows who they are but all we have to worry about is being obediant to what the lord is telling us now, preach the good news, make deciples of all nations, we are here to be a witness of God's love and to teach others about him....we are his ambassador's, you just keep doing what your doing and let God worry about the hearts of man. God Bless :-)


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B.J

 2006/9/13 8:52Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: confused

Dear Christian,

I can understand your concerns and I've had similar struggles with these issues and thoughts. In reading through your post I want to respond to some things in particular which I hope wll be helpfull for you.

Quote:
...but if god havent chosen them to be saved... it doesent do any good , or does it? i meen jesus says go out to the world... i will obey... but its just if he dident choose them to be saved there is no point in it,



I have thought about this myself and something you said here I think is really important for us even though we may not realise it. You said

[b][color=000000]i will obey[/color][/b]

Brother, isn't this enough for us? To obey? Ahh, but I desire to understand many things. My mind came to this passage of scripture where it says of the Lord Jesus

[b] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) [u]to do thy will[/u], O God.[/b]

As I have been grappling with these issues for some time now, another verse has come to mind from time to time, where it says

Quote:
Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.



And I wonder if concerning myself with thoughts of whom God has choosen or not is a [b][color=000000]thing too high for me[/color][/b].

I really haven't gotten any answers about it, except that to know that there is yet a stone in my heart that must be broken and upon it is written

I delight in thy will o God

even that which perplexes me and causes my heart grief.

more...


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/9/13 9:57Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: confused

Also brother, you mentioned this...

Quote:
and often pastors and evangelicals say chose today to be saved...but as i see it we cant really choose anything can we?



I believe that every effort should be made to appeal to the will of man; not because he of his own is able to respond but rather trusting and being confident that God is working in the will of those who He is calling. Remember too the words of our Lord Jesus where He taught

[color=663366][b]And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.[/color][/b]

Brother, our Lord has given us very simple tasks to involve oursleves with and He has left the truely great matters to Himself, like those that concern [b]the will[/b] and [b]the heart[/b].

He has called us to

herald a message

cast in a net

distribute the bread

and roll away a stone.

As Jonah proclaimed from the belly of the fish

[b]Salvation is of the Lord.[/b]

Peace be with you in Messiah Jesus.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/9/13 10:12Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: confused

Quote:
hmmhmm wrote:
if god havent chosen them to be saved... it doesent do any good , or does it?


[b]Isaiah 41:26[/b] [color=990000]Who has [b]announced[/b] from the beginning, that we may know; and before, that we may say, He is right? Yea, no one declares; yea, no one proclaims; yea, there is no one who hears your words.[/color]
Notice, it doesn't say "commanded from the beginning"
Prophacy is'nt God commanding something to happen, but it is Him knowing what will happen and fortelling the event.

Just like the Election of the saints; He knows that we will choose or not choose and then elect those who will according to what He knows we will do.

Take for instanc, some one you know very well, my wife for example, Some one offers her two things and I know the choice she has to make. However, I know her so well, I know what she will choose before hand, so I make arangments for her choice that I know she will make.

So, to answer your question, He hasn't chose them because He knows that they will not choose.

The question come to us then, Why will they not choose?
The answer is this with [b][size=large]PRAYER[/size][/b]
[b]Rom 10:14-15[/b] [color=990000]How then, will they be invoking Him in whom they did not believe? But how will they believe on Him of whom they did not hear? But how will they hear apart from one preaching?
[b]:15[/b] But how will they preach unless they be set apart & commissioned? Just as it has been written, "How beautiful are the feet of the ones proclaiming the Gospel of peace, of the ones proclaiming the Gospel of the good things!"[/color] [Isaiah 52:7; Nahum 1:15]

 2006/9/13 10:35Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: passive or active

Christian, have you considered going though the Bible and seeing how various eople entered into the kingdom? How many excercised their will in the process? How many entered the kingdom without any excercise of their will - or entered resistantly?

When Jesus said, "Come" to his disciples, did he force any of them? How did they come?

Were there any who resisted God's grace?

Also, you may like to check such themes as: persevere, overcome... and consider how one's will is or is not involved.

Here's a question, According to the Bible, why do some people go to hell?

Just some thoughts to check out.....

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/13 12:16Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
Here's a question, According to the Bible, why do some people go to hell?


No one goes to hell because of there sins, but only for rejecting the sacrifice that Jesus paid on the cross, along with His resurrection; with this comes eternal life.

The only penalty for sin is death, not hell.
People go to hell for dieing in the state in which the die.

Death in the Bible is always pictured as a separation between two things(Jam 2:26).
It is also a Process that involves corruption or decay(Psa 16:10, Psa 49:9)

Adam died spiritually when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was separated form the true fellowship with God.

Now, death can't bring forth life, so whoever is born of Adam is still spiritually dead. This is why we need to be born again, born of the Spirit.

If one does not recieve eternal life, he remains spiritualy dead
What is Life?
In the Bible, life always pictured as a relaitionship with God [b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000]Now this is eternal life: that they shall be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.[/color]
It is also a process that involves growth and repair(Psalm 1:3).
If one does not have these attributes, how can one not sin and and therefore die being spiritualy dead, and in turn go to hell?

I borrowed some of this from my post in "Origonal Sin" because I know it is relevant to this thread.

 2006/9/13 12:53Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: great answer

Quote:
No one goes to hell because of there sins, but only for rejecting the sacrifice that Jesus paid on the cross, along with His resurrection; with this comes eternal life.



Hey, Logic, you sure are a fast one! I had posted the question to Christian - as a way to get him thinking for himself.

It's one thing to get answers from someone who has already done the thinking, but entirely another thing to endure the tough slugging of finding them for yourself. Second hand beliefs don't hold up too well in the long run.


Anyway, I give you a gold star for your answer. It took a long before I could SEE that - I mean, really SEE that. I guess I was too dependent on second-hand teachings.

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/13 13:57Profile
HeartSong
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Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re: Original Question

This is not a direct answer to your question but it certainly clarifies some of what is contained therein.

Watchman Nee on "Prayer"
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=18611

 2006/9/13 15:58Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the search

Christian, do let us know how your search is going, and if the confusion is clearing up. You have asked a great question and I trust are on the path towards great answers.

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/13 17:07Profile





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