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Dougmore
Member



Joined: 2006/8/30
Posts: 122


 Re: Corrupt Christian music industry

Hi mikeness,

I pulled this article out of the archives of Charityministries.org They are remnant people and well based in Biblical beliefs.

Check it out because they did a good job at exposing the sinfulness in contemporary christian music.

In Christ, Doug


http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2005/May/theremnant-May2005-index.cfm

 2006/9/6 19:09Profile
mikeness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/20
Posts: 24


 Re: thingsabove

I dont like that sight that you recommended to me. Their arguments are full of knowledge, but I would say bias as well. While I have my own reasons for being skeptical about those artist's music based on their lyrics and the fact that they make a junk load of money, this sight goes so far as to say that many of these artists are affiliated with the occult. They base this on symbols used on the albums' covers. While they may be satanic symbols, the artists may be using them with ignorance of their meaning. If anything they ought to be exhorted for their ignorance of such matters and how ignorance of such things may give and adverse affect; but to go so far as to say that they are a part of the occult is idiotic when it is not coming out of the mouths of the artists and when it is based on assumption. The people on that sight are like news reporters who will use anything to support their opinion whether it is plausible or not.
I speak with peace and not hostility.

 2006/9/7 4:04Profile









 Re:

Quote:

mikeness wrote:
I dont like that sight that you recommended to me. Their arguments are full of knowledge, but I would say bias as well. While I have my own reasons for being skeptical about those artist's music based on their lyrics and the fact that they make a junk load of money, this sight goes so far as to say that many of these artists are affiliated with the occult. They base this on symbols used on the albums' covers. While they may be satanic symbols, the artists may be using them with ignorance of their meaning. If anything they ought to be exhorted for their ignorance of such matters and how ignorance of such things may give and adverse affect; but to go so far as to say that they are a part of the occult is idiotic when it is not coming out of the mouths of the artists and when it is based on assumption. The people on that sight are like news reporters who will use anything to support their opinion whether it is plausible or not.
I speak with peace and not hostility.



How do you know that about the people who wrote the article?

Just curious,

Orm

 2006/9/7 7:53
mikeness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/20
Posts: 24


 Re: Ormly

Have you read the article?
From the article
"Without question, the mysterious symbol on Third Day's Come Together album has a bizarre history of occult and satanic influence.

It's worth mentioning the Come Together album is an anthem for an ecumenical, one world, "come together" "love everybody" utopia. The same basic new age-love-mantra put out in the 60s and 70s by The Beatles and John Lennon." They are certainly trying to imply something here. These are mere correlations if anything and this sight is leading us to believe that most of these bands listed are in some way affiliated with the occult. It is gossip. This is how rumors get started, correlations and assumptions somehow become as fact.

 2006/9/8 2:04Profile
mikeness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/20
Posts: 24


 Re:

Have you read the article?
From the article
"Without question, the mysterious symbol on Third Day's Come Together album has a bizarre history of occult and satanic influence.

It's worth mentioning the Come Together album is an anthem for an ecumenical, one world, "come together" "love everybody" utopia. The same basic new age-love-mantra put out in the 60s and 70s by The Beatles and John Lennon." They are certainly trying to imply something here. These are mere correlations if anything and this sight is leading us to believe that most of these bands listed are in some way affiliated with the occult. It is gossip. This is how rumors get started, correlations and assumptions somehow become as fact. If it were pure fact then it would be a different story. I would not listen to the music and I would discourage others from listening to it as well.

 2006/9/8 2:13Profile









 Re:

What do you mean by" "these are mere correlations"?
Also Christians can to a lesser or higher degreee have occult influnces in there lives or work and may or may not realize it.
Again I am not saying the site is perfect. However have you found anything on it that you would label as accurate?
What do you think of Steve Camps 107 thesis on a call for reformation in CCM? Lets keep it level and mellow as we discuss this topic. God bless John

 2006/9/8 2:17
mikeness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/20
Posts: 24


 Re: things above

I have stated why I don't like the site you directed me to so it is of no use to me. Steven Camp's 107 thesis was great and very inciteful.

I would like to know if their are any specific pieces of evidence on the artists which would be good enough evidence to keep myself and others from listening to them.

 2006/9/10 3:18Profile









 Re:

Hello mikeness, As far as "specific" that is good enough evidence I would say that depends on your definition of it. Some Evidence that I think is good you don't.
Solution? Well, anything said on that site that seems like it might be good, ex. a quote that an artist said. You could then try to google search on the net to get a bigger context of that quote to confirm if it is accurate.
Also, on that site, hit the links. On the links are other site's concerning music you may want to check. Maybe some of those sites would seem more credible to you.
Another is type into google search word/phrases like, " what's wrong with Christian music " or "problems with christian music". Also type in Frank Garlocks name and see what he has to offer. Depending on the words you type in it will bring u diffrent sites that may have more credible material for you to look at.
There are numerous christian books published about the concerns of "ccm". Some by former artissts or worship leaders.
Lastly Frank Garlock is an older gentleman who has a video series called, "The Language of Music" which I think is very good.
Well I'll stop for now, God bless you, John

 2006/9/10 4:30
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: The Remnant

In all fairness ...

[url=http://www.charityministries.org]http://www.charityministries.org[/url]

This is a very good ministry. Unfortunately that particular article was not. It ended up being tainted with a lot of assumptions and poorly researched facts. Recall it well, have been receiving The Remnant for quite some time. Thought about writing a reply to them in regards to it.

The problem is that for all that might have been accurately stated and was, like many things it ends up going too far with speculations and assumptions and ends up ruining anything that might have spoken to those who would know the truth of their favorite performers. And I am speaking far more towards the secular here, something I am quite familiar with, having been practically a life long rock 'n roller.

It's just often dishonest and nobody is fooled by it. Most fans know their bands quite well and it is a disservice to fill notions in Christians heads that are inaccurate. Mikeness is right, this is amounts to untested and biased gossip, both by the writer and the receiver. Christian gullibility is just as much a lack of Berean testing the scriptures as it is anything else handed down to us.

Surely the writer's intent and motives are not lacking in the onset, it's just poorly researched and often places assumptions above facts. Think there is a post somewhere that developed off all this.

[i]Edit: The other site mentioned here I would not recommend either, there is a certain angst out there in these self-styled discernment ministries that will distort and dismantle information, furthering this Christian conspiracy theory that seems like it will never just lay down and die. It amount's to just mangled truth.[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/9/10 11:19Profile









 Re: Corrupt Christian music industry

We should enjoy all music and not just "christian". I am having a hard time finding good christian music, most of it's loud and abnoxious. I'd rather listen to "tulips from Amsterdam" or "Elizabethan Serenade". Don't get me wrong, I do listen to quite a bit of Christian music, but I am not stuck on that genre only. At one time there was no such a thing as "Christian music", classical music was considered to be just as sacred and still is at least in my circle of reasoning.

But when it comes to worship, music has nothing to do with it. Worship is humility and being contrite, how in the world it has become something else is beyond me.

Karl

 2006/9/10 13:39





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