Matthew 1329 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. Diane,In both cases, the harvest has been removed from the natural life-source of its natural body.Then the 'judgment' begins - which shall be cast away and who shall be gathered into the barn or the vessel to be 'kept' unto salvation.I hope you don't think I'm splitting hairs, but I'm looking at the moment which could be deemed the [i]death[/i]; which is then [i]followed[/i] by the [i]judgment[/i] (of quality), (rather than the 'natural order' in practise, offered by these two earthly examples). EDIT: I mean, I'm sure Jesus is just using allusions to the life-experience of His listeners, to give them a picture of the process of death and judgment, ahead of us all. EDIT end.Have you any other scripture to support the thought that 'taken' (Luke 17:34 - 36) refers to those who are lost, rather than those who are being saved from God's wrath?
This is an aside, which I came across while looking for something else.2 Chronicles 217 And Solomon numbered all the strangers that were in the land of Israel, after the numbering wherewith David his father had numbered them; and they were found [b]an hundred and fifty thousand and three thousand and six hundred[/b]. {the strangers: Heb. the men the strangers} 18 And he set threescore and ten thousand of them to be bearers of burdens, and fourscore thousand to be hewers in the mountain, and three thousand and six hundred overseers to set the people a work. 2 Chronicles 3:1Then [b]Solomon began to build the house of the LORD [u]at Jerusalem in mount Moriah[/u], where the LORD appeared unto David his father, in the place that [u]David had prepared in the threshingfloor[/u][/b] of Ornan the Jebusite.John 21:11Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, [b]an hundred and fifty and three[/b]: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken. Luke 14:23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and [b]compel them to come in, that my house may be filled[/b].
Man oh man! That video is so powerfull. I almost dropped off my chair and got my hairs pricked up. Very effective. Makes one think of that day, no matter what is ones position in pre-trib vs post-trib debate.Thanks for sharing that video sir.Levan
_________________levan giorgadze
Yes, in fact your pc has it stored in the temporary internet files. the problem is finding it. here's a step by step, and this should work with any file that's buffered onto your PC...1. Start menu > All programs > Accessories > System tools > Disc cleanup2.wait till the box of files comes up.3. left click once 'Temporary internet files' to highlight it4. click 'View files' this opens explorer and a list of ALL activity on your internet, this may be quite big but most files are very small.5. I click on the 'size' headder to sort by size, Largest first (may have to click on it twice)6. All the big downloaded files are shown. you are looking for one called 'SmLhyPjHVes[1].flv'7.you can copy this and put in in any folder you like.8. But it is a 'flv' file so you probably can't read it. if you go onto google and find a video conversion program (I use 'SUPER' and it's free) you then need to convert it into a MPG file so most programs can read it.Not too easy I know but once you've learned how to do it, you can do it with all sorts of clips.Ste
_________________Ste
Whoa ...
_________________Mike Balog
Woohoo! that made my heart start pumping! Thanks for sharing.
_________________Melissa
[i] Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[/i] 1 Corinthians 15:51,52 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~When the trump of the great archangelIts mighty tones shall sound,And, the end of the age proclaiming,Shall pierce the depths profound;When the Son of Man shall come in His gloryTo take the saints on high,What a shouting in the skies from the multitudes that rise,Changed in the twinkling of an eye.[i]RefrainChanged in the twinkling of an eye,Changed in the twinkling of an eye,The trumpet shall sound, the dead shall be raised,Changed in the twinkling of an eye.[/i]When He comes in the clouds descending,And they who loved Him here,From their graves shall awake and praise HimWith joy and not with fear;When the body and the soul are united,And clothed no more to die,What a shouting there will be when each others face we see,Changed in the twinkling of an eye.[i]Refrain[/i]O the seed that was sown in weaknessShall then be raised in powrAnd the songs of the blood bought millionsShall hail that blissful hour;When we gather safely home in the morning,And nights dark shadows fly,What a shouting on the shore when we meet to part no more,Changed in the twinkling of an eye.[i]Refrain[/i][url=http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/t/w/twinklin.htm]Fanny Crosby[/url]
Dorcas wrote:
Have you any other scripture to support the thought that 'taken' (Luke 17:34 - 36) refers to those who are lost, rather than those who are being saved from God's wrath?
_________________Diane
In the OT some believers were whisked away to heaven: by faith Enoch was taken from this life Heb. 11:5The righteous perish and no one ponders it in his heartDevout men are taken away and no one understands . The righteous are taken away to be spared evil Is 57:1 Notice that the unrighteous of Isaiahs day did not notice or care that a few devout men were taken away (via death). I doubt that on the last day it will be any different. Most of the hardened unbelievers will not know or care that some useless people have disappeared (beheaded, raptured, or whatever). I doubt that the rapture is Gods evangelism tool for sinners who are left behind. Scripture doesnt say it. On the day the Son of Man will be revealed Luke 17:30God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. 2 thes. 1:6-10 30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. SOME THOUGHTS: I can accept the possibility that Jesus was speaking of the righteous ones who are taken, but yet, from what I understand in scripture, the unrighteous arent going to be hanging around wondering what happened. They will see Christ with their own eyes, and it will be unbearable for them. They will encounter the full impact of his wrath - with nowhere to flee! Jesus will say to those many who expect to enter heaven: Depart from me for I never knew you. .... I wonder what impact a video of that event would have...Diane
I took up your challenge, Dorcas, and as a result, I have had a most enlightening time examining the wider context - going through the scriptures for examples of things, people, etc that were taken away, removed, or some similar term.
I doubt that the rapture is Gods evangelism tool for sinners who are left behind. Scripture doesnt say it.
.... I wonder what impact a video of that event would have...