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 Re: cool 58 second video


Matthew 13
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.


Diane,

In both cases, the harvest has been removed from the natural life-source of its natural body.

Then the 'judgment' begins - which shall be cast away and who shall be gathered into the barn or the vessel to be 'kept' unto salvation.


I hope you don't think I'm splitting hairs, but I'm looking at the moment which could be deemed the [i]death[/i]; which is then [i]followed[/i] by the [i]judgment[/i] (of quality), (rather than the 'natural order' in practise, offered by these two earthly examples).

EDIT: I mean, I'm sure Jesus is just using allusions to the life-experience of His listeners, to give them a picture of the process of death and judgment, ahead of us all. EDIT end.

Have you any other scripture to support the thought that 'taken' (Luke 17:34 - 36) refers to those who are lost, rather than those who are being saved from God's wrath?

 2006/9/4 8:19









 Re:


This is an aside, which I came across while looking for something else.

2 Chronicles 2
17
And Solomon numbered all the strangers that were in the land of Israel, after the numbering wherewith David his father had numbered them; and they were found [b]an hundred and fifty thousand and three thousand and six hundred[/b]. {the strangers: Heb. the men the strangers}

18 And he set threescore and ten thousand of them to be bearers of burdens, and fourscore thousand to be hewers in the mountain, and three thousand and six hundred overseers to set the people a work.

2 Chronicles 3:1
Then [b]Solomon began to build the house of the LORD [u]at Jerusalem in mount Moriah[/u], where the LORD appeared unto David his father, in the place that [u]David had prepared in the threshingfloor[/u][/b] of Ornan the Jebusite.

John 21:11
Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, [b]an hundred and fifty and three[/b]: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

Luke 14:23
And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and [b]compel them to come in, that my house may be filled[/b].

 2006/9/4 9:55
humble
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Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 31
toronto, ontario

 Re: cool, 58 second video

Man oh man! That video is so powerfull. I almost dropped off my chair and got my hairs pricked up. Very effective. Makes one think of that day, no matter what is ones position in pre-trib vs post-trib debate.
Thanks for sharing that video sir.
Levan


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levan giorgadze

 2006/9/4 22:38Profile
allhavsinned
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Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re: Can this vid be downloaded?

Yes, in fact your pc has it stored in the temporary internet files. the problem is finding it. here's a step by step, and this should work with any file that's buffered onto your PC...

1. Start menu > All programs > Accessories > System tools > Disc cleanup

2.wait till the box of files comes up.

3. left click once 'Temporary internet files' to highlight it

4. click 'View files' this opens explorer and a list of ALL activity on your internet, this may be quite big but most files are very small.

5. I click on the 'size' headder to sort by size, Largest first (may have to click on it twice)

6. All the big downloaded files are shown. you are looking for one called 'SmLhyPjHVes[1].flv'

7.you can copy this and put in in any folder you like.

8. But it is a 'flv' file so you probably can't read it. if you go onto google and find a video conversion program (I use 'SUPER' and it's free) you then need to convert it into a MPG file so most programs can read it.

Not too easy I know but once you've learned how to do it, you can do it with all sorts of clips.

Ste


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Ste

 2006/9/5 9:47Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: cool, 58 second video

Whoa ...


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Mike Balog

 2006/9/5 9:59Profile
MSeaman
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Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: cool, 58 second video

Woohoo! that made my heart start pumping! Thanks for sharing.


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Melissa

 2006/9/5 11:20Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE

[i] Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[/i] 1 Corinthians 15:51,52

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When the trump of the great archangel
Its mighty tones shall sound,
And, the end of the age proclaiming,
Shall pierce the depths profound;
When the Son of Man shall come in His glory
To take the saints on high,
What a shouting in the skies from the multitudes that rise,
Changed in the twinkling of an eye.

[i]Refrain

Changed in the twinkling of an eye,
Changed in the twinkling of an eye,
The trumpet shall sound, the dead shall be raised,
Changed in the twinkling of an eye.[/i]

When He comes in the clouds descending,
And they who loved Him here,
From their graves shall awake and praise Him
With joy and not with fear;
When the body and the soul are united,
And clothed no more to die,
What a shouting there will be when each other’s face we see,
Changed in the twinkling of an eye.

[i]Refrain[/i]

O the seed that was sown in weakness
Shall then be raised in pow’r
And the songs of the blood bought millions
Shall hail that blissful hour;
When we gather safely home in the morning,
And night’s dark shadows fly,
What a shouting on the shore when we meet to part no more,
Changed in the twinkling of an eye.

[i]Refrain[/i]

[url=http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/t/w/twinklin.htm]Fanny Crosby[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2006/9/5 15:30Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE

Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
Have you any other scripture to support the thought that 'taken' (Luke 17:34 - 36) refers to those who are lost, rather than those who are being saved from God's wrath?

I took up your challenge, Dorcas, and as a result, I have had a most enlightening time examining the wider context - going through the scriptures for examples of things, people, etc that were taken away, removed, or some similar term. I suspect that exercise helped me see through the eyes of Jesus’ listeners – especially those who knew the OT law and the prophets - and perhaps what they would have understood by Jesus' words.

TAKING AWAY, REMOVE
PURPOSE: Divine judgment

“… after removing Saul, he made David their kingActs 13:22
Uzziah was removed from his position as king
The remnant of Israel – many are taken and a few are spared
"they will be taken to Babylon" Jer. 27:22
“I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place." Rev. 2:5

“Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens. The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken – that is, created things – so that what cannot be shaken may remain.” Heb. 12:26

PURPOSE: PURITY
1. What God requires of his people
“ It (house with mildew) must be torn down – its stones, timbers, and plaster - and taken out of town to an unclean place” Lev 14:45
“(sin offering) must be taken outside the camp” Lev. 16:27
“ Remove the dross from the silver,
remove the wicked from the king’s Prov. 25:
“…taken off your old self Col. 3:9

2. What God does for his people:
I will thoroughly purge away your dross and remove your impurities” Is 1:25
I will remove the sin from this land Zec 13:2
remove from them their heart of stone. Ez 11:19

In all these references it was the imperfect “thing” that is taken away/removed - the evil ones, deformity, the sin, the sinful heart, the idols, people etc. Surely Jesus’ listeners and the early church would have seen Jesus words ”one will be taken.” that way.


I still suspect that in this Lk 17 passage Jesus was primarily warning of the finality of judgment – when the sinner would be destroyed and lose his life, as vs 33 points out: "Whoever tries to keep his life will LOSE it, and whoever loses his life will PRESERVE it. I tell you, on THAT night two people.... " ...

What night? Is this the night of the ingathering - when one loses his life (eternally) if he has tried to keep it?

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/5 17:58Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: WHEN THE RIGHTEOUS ARE TAKEN

In the OT some believers were whisked away to heaven:

“by faith Enoch was taken from this life” Heb. 11:5

“The righteous perish and no one ponders it in his heart
Devout men are taken away and no one understands .
The righteous are taken away to be spared evil…” Is 57:1

Notice that the unrighteous of Isaiah’s day did not notice or care that a few devout men were taken away (via death). I doubt that on the last day it will be any different. Most of the hardened unbelievers will not know or care that some “useless” people have disappeared (beheaded, raptured, or whatever). I doubt that the rapture is God’s evangelism tool for sinners who are left behind. Scripture doesn’t say it.

On the day the Son of Man will be revealed” Luke 17:30

“God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed.” 2 thes. 1:6-10

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.



SOME THOUGHTS:
I can accept the possibility that Jesus was speaking of the righteous ones who are taken, but yet, from what I understand in scripture, the unrighteous aren’t going to be hanging around wondering what happened. They will see Christ with their own eyes, and – it will be unbearable for them. They will encounter the full impact of his wrath - with nowhere to flee!


Jesus will say to those many who expect to enter heaven: “Depart from me for I never knew you.” .... I wonder what impact a video of that event would have...

Diane


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Diane

 2006/9/5 18:02Profile









 Re: cool 58 second video

Quote:
I took up your challenge, Dorcas, and as a result, I have had a most enlightening time examining the wider context - going through the scriptures for examples of things, people, etc that were taken away, removed, or some similar term.

Diane,

All respect to you. You've probably spent longer looking at this than I have, and yet, as years have passed and I've looked for anything in scripture to support the idea that Christians will be on the earth with non-Christians [u]when He returns[/u], I have found nothing which forces me to rethink what I had (thought I) understood.

Quote:
I doubt that the rapture is God’s evangelism tool for sinners who are left behind. Scripture doesn’t say it.

In Jesus' tale about the other side, (as a preacher I heard said repeatedly during his sermon on this story - 'When you die, you wake up!') He puts these words into the mouth of the dead rich man:

Luke 16
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, [b]If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one [u]rose[/u] from the dead[/b].


Quote:
.... I wonder what impact a video of that event would have...

They might think it was [i][b]pure[/b][/i] fiction.

Thank you for doing this study so honestly, Diane. You set a high standard for us all, to bring a decent level of research to our opining.

 2006/9/6 9:31





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