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RevKerrigan
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 58
South Central Kentucky

 Original Sin

I have been hearing a lot of things lately going for and against the idea of Original Sin. A little bit on this message board and some on another message board. I would like for the brothers and sisters in Christ to give me Scriptural backing for or against this idea. Please use Scripture only and not your opinion as that is all that matters. God Bless and I look forward to this...

P.S.
Let's keep this thread Godly. No personal attacks on anyone...Ok? :-)


_________________
Kerrigan Skelly

 2006/9/1 19:43Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Original Sin

Evening RevKerrigan and all. I'm glad for the opportunity to learn more about this subject.

I do believe the doctrine of [i]original sin[/i] and I thought of these verses in connection with it:

[b][color=000000] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.[/color][/b]

[b][color=999999] And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:[/color][/b]

[b]Some observations[/b]

Adam was created in the Image of God.

Seth was born with Adam's image but something happened in between.


Any thoughts?


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/9/1 20:44Profile
JoeA
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 364
Decatur, Illinois

 Re: Original Sin

I won't give my opinion on this matter, because my opinion is worthless. Let us allow God to do the talking.

Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 "And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 "For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 "For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."


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Joe Auvil

 2006/9/1 20:46Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Original Sin

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=4634&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Nature of sin - WHAT IS SIN????[/url]

For some reference.


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Mike Balog

 2006/9/1 20:55Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

JoeA on 2006/9/2 1:46:58

Quote:
my opinion is worthless


that would depend on how you got it. ;-) If 'opinions' were worthless this would render most of the forum redundant. :-)

edit: 10:40 2nd Sept
BTW we have 'touched' on this topic before...

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=9369&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]What is sin?[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=11300&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Sin and the Sin Nature[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9433&forum=36]The difference between sin and sins[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9297&forum=36]Original Sin. Adam or me?[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6325&forum=34]MacArthur on One Nature[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=5558&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Adam's Sin[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4634&forum=35]The Nature of Sin[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4634&forum=35]Our sinful nature and the devil[/url]
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4634&forum=35]Did all mankind fall with Adam?[/url]

and there are one or two chapters on the topic in [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=1&topic_id=1664&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]Next Door to Heaven[/url]


..but, by all means, let's talk some more... :-D


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Ron Bailey

 2006/9/2 5:06Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

Gday all aussies......and perhaps the poms, kiwi's, yanks and all other anglo-saxon and other gentiles. hahaa.

j/k. Gday to all Gentiles and Jews!

God bless u all!

Thankyou for raising this point.

Firstly i would love to ask the following question in regards to Leonard Ravenhill.

L. Ravenhill once said "I like Finney, you know why? Because he didnt believe in original sin." (exact quote?)

How exactly does Finney differ from the belief in orginal sin?

Why do so many Calvanists hate Finney? (i sought of know why lol)

Why does L. Ravenhill like Finney for this reason?


Thank you! Awating some educational lesson on the issue.

God bless u all. ciao

 2006/9/2 7:39Profile









 Re: Original Sin

Revkerrigan, please define for me the "idea" of original sin. What do you mean by it? Then I can give scripture concerning it. Thanks and God bless you for being a full time evangalist!

 2006/9/2 9:48
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

W_D_J_D on 2006/9/2 12:39:45

Quote:
L. Ravenhill once said "I like Finney, you know why? Because he didnt believe in original sin." (exact quote?)


Can you tie down this quotation for me? I would like to know the context in which it was said. I must say it surprizes me knowing Ravenhill's UK background. It would not surprize me if Reidhead said it but I would like to know where you heard it.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/9/2 10:52Profile
JoeA
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 364
Decatur, Illinois

 Re:

Quote:
Can you tie down this quotation for me? I would like to know the context in which it was said. I must say it surprizes me knowing Ravenhill's UK background. It would not surprize me if Reidhead said it but I would like to know where you heard it.



Did Paris Reidhead not believe in origianl sin?


_________________
Joe Auvil

 2006/9/2 13:16Profile
nrambeck
Member



Joined: 2006/9/2
Posts: 9


 Re: Original Sin

The standard definition of original sin which was first developed by St. Augustine, is the idea that all men inherit the guilt of Adam. This definition of original sin is the fountainhead of Calvinist theology. Without it the Calvinist system of theology falls apart.

Since the idea that children inherit guilt from their fathers is not a commonly held belief in any society, theologians have posited 2 major theories for how this could actually be. One says that all men actually pre-existed in Adam's loins and thus we were actually doing the sinning with Adam. Another says that Adam is legally the federal head of all mankind and therefore all mankind is legally held liable for the sin of their federal head.

Charles Finney was an aggressive activist against this idea of original sin and was very lucid in his objections. Finney was such an avid activist against original sin, because he saw the doctrine as an attack on the justice of God and as a hinderance to the salvation of men.

Finney taught that men sin and rebel against God because they freely choose to. The doctrine of original sin teaches that men sin because they are constrained to by a necessity of their sin nature which they inherited at birth. Finney observed that this idea gave men the opportunity to pass the blame of their own sin and guilt on to their ancient forefather.

Finney held that the Bible and Biblical doctrine must adhere to sound reasoning. Sinners would point out that, if their sinful state and guilt was inherited, then God had no reasonable grounds on which to judge them responsible for their sins.

I have found that the most ardent defenders of the doctrine of Original Sin (besides Calvinists) are sinners who lover their sin. They constantly and fervently insist that their sins are acceptable because "they are only human." Their guilt is appeased because they have been reassured by the Christian community that they are only doing what comes naturally to them.

I believe that the Bible teaches that Adam,s "original sin" did in fact affect the world and the lives of his children. (It is commonly accepted that the sins of fathers invariably affect the lives of their children). But, the Bible is absolutely insistant that GUILT is NEVER inherited or passed from father to son. God holds men responsible for their own sins and NEVER for the sins of their fathers.

The entire 18th chapter of Ezekiel is a rebuke to those that teach otherwise. (Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. )

 2006/9/2 13:52Profile





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