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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved Always Saved?

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OverSeer
Member



Joined: 2006/7/15
Posts: 153
Geneva, Alabama

 Re:

Orm wrote:

Quote:
If I am righteous in deed and pure in thought, and have no Godly sorrow, what is to bring me to Christ?



If one is rigteous in deed and pure in thought then Christ died needlessly - but - "There is none righteous, not even one" (Romans 3:10). In this case there would be nothing to bring one to Christ - Jesus said, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the [i]righteous[/i] but [b]sinners[/b] to repentance" (Luke 5:31-32).

Grace and peace
Olan


_________________
Olan Strickland

 2006/9/7 17:07Profile
OverSeer
Member



Joined: 2006/7/15
Posts: 153
Geneva, Alabama

 Re:

100percent wrote:

Quote:
I don't think that this topic should even have time wasted upon. there are more important things to be discussed and revealed.



Quote:
I still fail to see any relevance whatsoever of this topic.



Do you really believe what you are saying and if so then why are you giving so much time to an irrelevant topic?

The desire to have assurance of salvation has nothing to do with wanting to sin more but has everything to do with determining paternity - after all the tares (children of the devil) think that they are wheat (children of God). Then the next desire would be to know if there is anything one can do or not do that will cause him or her to lose sonship or daughterhood.

Grace and peace
Olan


_________________
Olan Strickland

 2006/9/7 17:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:

OverSeer wrote:
Orm wrote:
Quote:
If I am righteous in deed and pure in thought, and have no Godly sorrow, what is to bring me to Christ?



If one is rigteous in deed and pure in thought then Christ died needlessly - but - "There is none righteous, not even one" (Romans 3:10). In this case there would be nothing to bring one to Christ - Jesus said, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the [i]righteous[/i] but [b]sinners[/b] to repentance" (Luke 5:31-32).

Grace and peace
Olan



But I don't know about any unrighteousness I can't do anything about, i.e., the stain of Adam. Other than the stain I inherited, I'm righteous, blameless before God. God has said so many times in scripture. Need I quote the names of who I could have been to have that said about me?

BTW, He didn't come to call the righteous, did He?
Why do you think that is?
Orm :-)

 2006/9/7 18:12
OverSeer
Member



Joined: 2006/7/15
Posts: 153
Geneva, Alabama

 Re:

Quote:
But I don't know about any unrighteousness I can't do anything about, i.e., the stain of Adam. Other than the stain I inherited, I'm righteous, blameless before God.



Orm, are you saying that you are sinless? How did you get to be righteous and blameless before God? Or are you saying that the only sin you have is Adam's fault?

Grace and peace
Olan


_________________
Olan Strickland

 2006/9/7 21:21Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

I believe he is saying that Christ is his righteousness and he is blameless before God by the Christ that is birthed in him.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His Seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But if we are saying we are sinless that is a lie of the devil, which he wants us to believe and make God a liar. All have sinned and fall short of the sinless ness or glory of God.

Not being born of God is where the sin is.

1 John 1:7-10 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



In Christ: Phillip



_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/8 6:21Profile









 Re:

Quote:

OverSeer wrote:
Quote:
But I don't know about any unrighteousness I can't do anything about, i.e., the stain of Adam. Other than the stain I inherited, I'm righteous, blameless before God.



Orm, are you saying that you are sinless?



No.

Quote:
How did you get to be righteous and blameless before God?



One can be righteous and blameless before God by thinking and doing righteously. Many did in the OT and were called friends of God. Thinking and doing righteously never required a special unction from God. Man was created in the image of God. That never changed in the fall. The Light of Life [Jn 1.4] was never removed from the presence of man, but man loved darkness rather than the Light. [Sound familiar?] The arrogant fool stopped believing and set himself up as a god.

Quote:
Or are you saying that the only sin you have is Adam's fault?



I do not believe I wrote that, but if by your asking for clarification I believe I am no longer a sinner saved by Grace, you are correct. I was a sinner, saved by Grace. Now I am one working out his salvation with fear and trembling. It is called a journey or a process of becoming a son. Sinners cannot do that nor can a sinner, even through striving and much violence, see or enter the Kingdom of God. Seeing and entering is by revelation and invitation only. However, that is another subject separate from the Blood of Jesus shed for my sinful condition. I had nothing do with the sin of Adam nor the Blood of Jesus being shed.

What I wrote was, the stain of Adam is not fault. He sinned and [b]by inheritance[/b], I am as sinful as he was; I received something from Adam not intended for Adam or me and no amount of righteousness or blamelessness of my life, could erase that stain. The often mis-quoted verse concerning "filthy rags" can be easily understood when viewed from this perspective.


Enter the Man Jesus who canceled out the sin-stain of Adam for the whole world. Now in Christ, my life is restored to that of Adam BEFORE he fell. The difference between him and I is someone called an advocator who sits at the right hand of God pleading my case because of residual sin in my life that must decrease as His life increases. Adam could have used an advocator to plead his case, but Adam never had an advocator. Adam, no doubt, was forgiven but he could not be delivered from the penalty imposed upon him. He and righteous-blameless men had to wait 4000yrs for Him, the Lamb, to set them free. What a privilege we have today, if we belong to Him, to be claimed by Him who by revelation, call upon His name.

Respectfully,

Orm

How

 2006/9/8 9:23









 Re:

Quote:

'Would you not want to know the accuracy of your assumptions, to know that it is more than just an assumption you cling to, but rather a hope made alive by a Spirit bearing witness?'

Forgive my ignorance, although I don't really understand the question. Could you maybe re-phrase it please?

 2006/9/8 12:04









 Re:

Quote:

richardf wrote:
Quote:

'Would you not want to know the accuracy of your assumptions, to know that it is more than just an assumption you cling to, but rather a hope made alive by a Spirit bearing witness?'

Forgive my ignorance, although I don't really understand the question. Could you maybe re-phrase it please?



We can all assume we are saved simply by having faith in the Atonement. No Spirit bearing witness is necessary. However, considering the new birth experience, I believe one is necessary. We need that experience. We need to know, we can know and we will know.

Hope that helps.

:-D

 2006/9/8 12:23









 Re:

Quote:

'We can all assume we are saved simply by having faith in the Atonement. No Spirit bearing witness is necessary. However, considering the new birth experience, I believe one is necessary. We need that experience. We need to know, we can know and we will know.'

Sorry guys for my lack of knowledge! Although I'm still not sure what this means!

What is a Spirit bearing witness?

Thankyou for your patience!

Rich

 2006/9/8 13:52









 Re:



Try this out, Rich.

Romans 2:15 (NASB-U)
in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

Romans 8:16 (NASB-U)
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Romans 9:1 (NASB-U)
I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,

In the KJV:

Romans 2:15 (KJV)
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Romans 8:16 (KJV)
The [b]Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit[/b], that we are the children of God:

Romans 9:1 (KJV)
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

:-Drm

 2006/9/8 13:58





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