SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved Always Saved?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

"I still fail to see any relevance whatsoever of this topic. If someone were to ask the question, they are not looking for an answer they are looking for an excuse. Can I lose my slavation? How far am I able to go into sin before it is lost? Am I able to sin now and never have to worry about losing my salvation?"

Its not a question of sinning to much. This is a question of assurance, which is biblical. For example, how do you know you are saved, if you are saved?


_________________
Kristy

 2006/9/7 12:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:

100percent wrote:
I still fail to see any relevance whatsoever of this topic. If someone were to ask the question, they are not looking for an answer they are looking for an excuse. Can I lose my slavation? How far am I able to go into sin before it is lost? Am I able to sin now and never have to worry about losing my salvation?
We should move out of these petty debates and move onto discussions involving something that has relevance to God. The fact I present you all with is that either way, true or not, we as christians have a duty to never allow oursleves to fall pray to sin, especially to the point of anyone questioning whether they are saved or not. We need to stop trying to figure out eternity and figure out what God wants and is here and now.

respectfully,

100percent




Given that sin is a relationship and we say we are Christian yet do not abide in Christ that the relationship with sin is severed, as intended by Him that we do, what must be our concern?


Orm

 2006/9/7 12:56









 Re: Once Saved Always Saved?

100percent wrote:

'I still fail to see any relevance whatsoever of this topic. If someone were to ask the question, they are not looking for an answer they are looking for an excuse. Can I lose my slavation? How far am I able to go into sin before it is lost? Am I able to sin now and never have to worry about losing my salvation?'

I said in my early post:

'The question of 'once saved always saved?' came to my mind whilst listening to a sermon by John Piper entitled, 'Battling the Unbelief of Lust.' In this sermon, he talks about a conversation he had with a man that was commiting adultery. Piper said to this man, 'Don't you realise that if you don't fight this sin, you'll go to hell?'

Surely, this statement alone proves the subject useful and relevant. If what John Piper says is true and biblical, and that we can lose our salvation over something like lust and the way we fight it, then we must know this. Surely you would rather know about this than lusting, thinking nothing of it and then dying, standing before God and getting thrown into hell?

 2006/9/7 13:39









 Re:

Amazing this thing called "thinking"?

:-D

 2006/9/7 13:56
100percent
Member



Joined: 2006/9/6
Posts: 7


 Re:

I do not question whether or not it is true. I question the reasoning behind people who seem to need the answer. The question is why? Why do you need to know? Is there some sin in your life that keeps you in fear of death? The Bible says not to worry. Luk 12:25 Can any of you live a bit longer by worrying about it? I ask you can any of you change your eternity by worrying about it? You can discuss this all day long and profit nothing from it. 2Co 5:17 Anyone who is joined to Christ is a new being; the old is gone, the new has come.

1Jo 3:7 Let no one deceive you, my children! Whoever does what is right is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 Whoever continues to sin belongs to the Devil, because the Devil has sinned from the very beginning. The Son of God appeared for this very reason, to destroy what the Devil had done.
1Jo 3:9 Those who are children of God do not continue to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin. You know you are saved if you act like God. You know you are not if you act like the Devil. I'm sorry but if you doubt you are saved then you have a serious theological problem. I don't understand how sin is even a problem for you anymore. Did not God change you. Did God not create you a new? Do you not renew your mind. Be mindful lest you fall into temptation. Paul never said you would. He said you could. This is not a fight. We do not fight sin, why should we, we have been freed from it's bondage, Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit, which brings us life in union with Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:5 Those who live as their human nature tells them to, have their minds controlled by what human nature wants. Those who live as the Spirit tells them to, have their minds controlled by what the Spirit wants.
Rom 8:6 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace.
Rom 8:7 And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it.
Rom 8:8 Those who obey their human nature cannot please God.
It is no longer a fight it is a choice.
1Co 3:17 God will destroy anyone who destroys God's temple. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.
1Co 3:16 Surely you know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you!
You are the temple of the Living God. He dwells in you.
Now remember in Mark 3 Jesus tells the scribes that a house divided can not stand. A kingdom divided can not stand. Now would it make sense for God to raise a family or army of people who inside themselves are fighting themselves. No God does not dwell where sin dwells. We in the church need to realize that the war is over, we win. We no longer need to deal with sin, we must be mindful of temptation realizing that we do not have to fall prey to it. Can a christian still sin, YES. Can they lose their salvation? Well my friend that is up to God, but it should not be in the thoughts of any true Christian whether or not they have lost their salvation. This si a call to say, you should not have to question this. You are a new creation follow God's Spirit, not the World.


And to the unbeliever - they must realize they are a sinner. After they come to know the Lord, it is not a question of can I lose my salvation, it is a question of why should you. You are new, holy, your body is not your own. Why would you still sin, 1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
When you are asaved live like the one who has paid for your life with his. Does not the Lamb who was slain, deserve the reward of His sacrifice? (Moravian quote kinda)

 2006/9/7 14:43Profile
brentbarnett
Member



Joined: 2006/8/31
Posts: 20
Wisconsin

 Re: once saved always saved

The missing link in the whole confusion about eternal security is the fact that the person who is saved is not looking to exploit his freedom. A person gets saved truly when he sees the error of his ways against the backdrop of the holiness of God. He trusts in Christ as the only means to make him new, holy, and righteous. Such change is accompanied by a godly sorrow over sin. The salvation experience is ultimately a work of God in a person’s heart. God is the author and finisher of our faith. Thus, what God has done, He will be faithful to complete (Philippians 1:6). No one can take us out of God’s hands.

Some see the truth that God will glorify those whom He has also called and justified as being a way to manipulate the system. Paul anticipated this objection, saying “What? Shall we sin that grace may abound? May it never be!” He goes on to show how we are no longer slaves to sin but slaves of righteousness. Some believers may make shipwreck of their faith, falling away from holiness but not from God. This is rebellion against God, and it results in a serious loss of rewards. How we live in this life determines the quality of the next, though all believers are assured an inheritance in heaven. In addition to eternal rewards, the motivation for righteous living even though we know we are saved is that we love our God. The fear of God plays a role but so does gratitude and the love of God, seeing that we were bought with a price. A person who professes faith but has no works should have reason to question the genuineness of his faith. If he has some works, he will have some fruit. If he has no works, he can assume that he is dead. The goal is that we bear much fruit. All believers must have at least some fruit, for that is how we are known.

Where does this leave us? It leaves us with the black and white reality that those who are born again are changed from the inside out. They are not seeking to exploit the love of God and the sacrifice of Christ. They nay sin, but it eats them up inside as the Holy Spirit works on their hearts (like David in Psalm 51). (I do believe that some infant believers get so far led astray into deception because they never get taught the full counsel of God that they may not even feel remorse over their sin, though they may well be truly saved). The love of Christ controls us, says 2 Corinthians 5:14. The believer has a new heart, he is not enslaved to his flesh, and he is being renewed in his mind day by day. Thus, the believer does not seek to take advantage of his freedom, though he may sin at times. He may sin and stumble, but he will not make a practice of sin. 1 John 3:9 says, “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” John’s point is that there is a cut and dry difference between the saved and the unsaved. The saved are children of God, no longer children of the devil. Thus, they have new loves and new behaviors. 1 John 5:13 then sums it up by saying that they can know they are saved. How do they know? They know because of what Christ did and because His regeneration of them leads to a reworking of their loves and behaviors. When Christians see this change in themselves, they are convinced of their salvation and security. They know that nothing can separate them from God’s love.

Some believers choose to walk after the flesh even though they are no longer of flesh. These we need to discipline in the church and let Satan deal with the destruction of their flesh (1 Corinthians 5:5). It is not necessarily true that because a person rebels that he or she is not saved or was not saved to begin with.

Eternal security is clearly taught in the Scriptures. Those who want to exploit it need to ask themselves why? If they have the same sinful desires in their heart to break God’s laws as they did before they professed faith, they need to ask themselves if they really are saved. Christians stumble; unbelievers sin through and through. Christians love God and others, though imperfectly; unbelievers may act loving, but they cannot truly love.

Are we born again? If so, we are new creations in Christ. Eternal security is not the problem. It is how we share the gospel. If people truly repent, then eternal security is a joy and a rest, motivating us to store up treasures in our certain inheritance. If people profess faith falsely, then eternal security is a great deal for sin. Unfortunately, such profession is not a true possession of faith. True Christianity requires a transformation. This is why Christian organizations can talk about having won 4 billion souls for Christ and the world and church remains chaotic and dysfunctional. True repentance leads to permanent, though imperfect and sometimes rocky, change. But praise God that those who truly repented of their sin will be brought into heaven with Christ because of Christ’s power, grace, and sustaining love.

Brent Barnett
www.relevantbibleteaching.com


_________________
Brent Barnett

 2006/9/7 14:58Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

100percent,

Quote:
This is not a fight. We do not fight sin, why should we, we have been freed from it's bondage

Quote:
We in the church need to realize that the war is over, we win. We no longer need to deal with sin, we must be mindful of temptation realizing that we do not have to fall prey to it. Can a christian still sin, YES. Can they lose their salvation? Well my friend that is up to God, but it should not be in the thoughts of any true Christian whether or not they have lost their salvation.



Brother, a couple of notes. One, these are not 'petty' discussions in the least, the larger matter here is one of an ill-adviced catchphraseolgy that is giving all kinds of conflicting messages to the Body. Keep in mind, there are any number of people peering into these things discussed here.

The quotes taken out above, why did Paul say;

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

Amongst many an example?

It most certainly [i]is[/i] a fight, we have indeed been freed from the [i]power[/i] of sin, of having to give into it, with a way provided for escape, but to chalk it up as you have here, it's just not so.

[i]Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[/i] Hebrews 12: 1-8

It seems you are dismissing far too much, far to easily here.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/9/7 15:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The missing link in the whole confusion about eternal security is the fact that the person who is saved is not looking to exploit his freedom. A person gets saved truly when he sees the error of his ways against the backdrop of the holiness of God. He trusts in Christ as the only means to make him new, holy, and righteous. Such change is accompanied by a godly sorrow over sin. The salvation experience is ultimately a work of God in a person’s heart. God is the author and finisher of our faith. Thus, what God has done, He will be faithful to complete (Philippians 1:6). No one can take us out of God’s hands.





If I am righteous in deed and pure in thought, and have no Godly sorrow, what is to bring me to Christ?

Orm

 2006/9/7 15:57









 Re:

'I do not question whether or not it is true. I question the reasoning behind people who seem to need the answer. The question is why? Why do you need to know? Is there some sin in your life that keeps you in fear of death?'

My last post applies here also.

 2006/9/7 16:21









 Re:

Quote:

richardf wrote:
'I do not question whether or not it is true. I question the reasoning behind people who seem to need the answer. The question is why? Why do you need to know? Is there some sin in your life that keeps you in fear of death?'

My last post applies here also.



Would you not want to know the accuracy of your assumptions, to know that it is more than just an assumption you cling to, but rather a hope made alive by a Spirit bearing witness?

:-D

 2006/9/7 16:55





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy