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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
How in the world do you go about defending Spurgeon? He is so saturated with Calvinism that I don't see how anybody could extricate the tiniest morsel without its being dripping in sauce.


He speaks to my heart.

I see from your last post that you are I are probably just theological mongrels! :-D Perhaps that's what I should answer when people ask me what I am.

Quote:
I tend to think people who struggle to find the godly "middle" where there is firm ground to stand upon bring more balance than the extremists on either side of an issue...but everyone has their place.

You can sometimes effect a balance by putting equal weight at both extremes.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/4/29 16:50Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

The Church of God and the AG , like Luther both believe that salvation can be lost. I see the scripture texts they use but dispite all that I still look at obscure scripture like Paul's statement on being judged in the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of judgement, and his statement to the church at Corinth where he said because of misuse of the Lord's table some were sickly and some went to sleep---I take that as died physically. I've never been able to reconcile that instance of physical death as lost salvation. So even though I'm not very studied in the matter I do differ somewhat with my own fellowships doctrine there. I do like the idea of perseverance where I can see the grace of God working with the saints but I don't really know enough about the reformed doctrines to ---at least---intelectually, understand them or comment on them. As you and Ron went back and forth I saw points on both sides I could see and agreed with. So balance is a difficult task, a very difficult task. But the one thing I've observed in ministering to people is that if they think they might go to hell by losing thier salvation they generally never learn to just simply love God for who He is and what He's done for them. They seem to stay bound up in fear and that moves them toward legalistic forms of service and worship, I feel out of a wrong motive, for sure not out of love. Bro. Daryl


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D.Miller

 2005/4/29 18:46Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Eric
To teach (assuming this is your responsibility in the kingdom of God) does not rely on what you know but entirely on revelation from the Holy spirit, God will teach through you. Theology, other ologies, isms etc are of no consequence unless they are in line with God. They can become hinderences in our service to God as they become the source of ideas of what we can do for God rather than God HImself being the source.

Of late God has been dealing with me such that I am abandoning my past beliefs for whatever He teaches me, in short He showed me that I knew nothing at all of Him. to be effective for Him in the kingdom we need to come to grips with that.

are you a preacher by way?


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Farai Bamu

 2005/4/30 3:46Profile
Svineklev
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Joined: 2004/12/14
Posts: 74


 Re:

Ironman--

We are all called to be preachers--at least with our lives--but I have no such role (in a formal sense) at this time.

Teaching cannot possibly rely entirely on revelation. We must have a grid of knowledge to help evaluate whether messages are from God (or just the effects of an undigested piece of sausage). Good men have misread the intentions of the Spirit. Prophecies and interpretations and teachings need to be in line with Scripture. They need to be in line with the consensus of tradition (at least the first four Ecumenical Councils...and major creeds like the Nicene and Apostles'). We also need to be held accountible by those more mature in the faith and by those in ecclesiastical authority over us.

Theology that is held by mere intellectual assent can indeed be a hindrance. I do my best to bring my beliefs in line with what the Spirit is teaching me. Sometimes that means abandoning past beliefs, but more often it means holding onto them for all I'm worth.

Don't get the notion that the Spirit can only teach through emotion or mystical experience or life situations or prayer and meditation. There is nothing unsanctified in diligent study of the Word, nothing unholy in systematic theology.

Nothing keeps the idea that I have nothing of value to offer God and that he is to be my one and only source quite like my theology. It is a tremendous boon and not a detriment at all.

--Eric

 2005/4/30 14:36Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Eric
I agree with you concerning our lives being atestament to God's glory and mercy and grace. Indeed in the past men have messed up concerning the leadings of the spirit etc. For us to be sure that prophecy and such line up with scripture we also have to be looking at scripture through the spiritual eyes so it is interpreted perfectly. As for lining up with the 4 ecumenical councils I'm unsure what those entail, could you summerize that in a way that a layman like myself could understand, ie no words more than 5 syllables :-P

it is good that you are prepared to abandon past beliefs for new ones if the spirit leads you to do so. That's what God has been teaching me lately. God does not always instruct through emotion etc, I agree and I'm not saying that we should abandon all scriptural study at all. we should however be cautious of the spirit in which we search scripture, is it for God's glory or our own? that should be the question we answer before we do anything, "Am I doing this for the glory of God truly, or for my own?"


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Farai Bamu

 2005/4/30 20:32Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
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IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Don't get the notion that the Spirit can only teach through emotion or mystical experience or life situations or prayer and meditation. There is nothing unsanctified in diligent study of the Word, nothing unholy in systematic theology.



by the way I feel that sometimes we get so wrapt up in geting book knowledge that we tend to leave out revelations of the spirit altogether. We need both.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/4/30 20:41Profile
Svineklev
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Joined: 2004/12/14
Posts: 74


 Re:

Hey,

The first four Ecumenical Councils (Nicea [325 AD], Constantinople [381 AD], Ephesus [431 AD], and Chalcedon [451 AD]) established such orthodox theological notions as the complete humanity and divinity of Christ, agreed upon the Nicene Creed as a true summary of the faith, and laid down organizing decrees for the governance of the church. Their rulings (especially concerning the nature of Christ) are considered normative by the Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, and by the vast majority of Protestants.

Hope that helps,

--Eric

 2005/5/10 4:55Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Eric
So are you saying that all Christian understanding must be consistent with the Scriptures AND the first four Ecumenical Councils? Do we need to add the first four Ecumenicals Council decisions to the canon? My suspicion hairs on the back of my neck begin to prickle with the 'church governance' elements that you mention, as church government was well astray 200 years before Nicea.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/5/10 14:01Profile
Svineklev
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Joined: 2004/12/14
Posts: 74


 Re:

Ron--

Those hairs of yours are right on target. The Ecumenical Councils are not part of the canon and may indeed err in specifics (although they helped to establish the canon as we know it).

On Trinitarian and Christological matters, however, they represent an almost universal consensus in the church down through the years even to our day.

Their is nothing wrong with writing down what we have learned from the Spirit as an entire group. And then using that as an ongoing "filter" through which we direct out interpretation of Scripture.

--Eric

 2005/5/22 21:30Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

What do you think about the so-called [url=http://www.pfrs.org/foundation/hist07.html]Wesleyan Quadrilateral[/url]?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/5/23 2:36Profile





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