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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Phl 3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;

Hbr 10:30 For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto Me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, [even] in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and you shall be saved. The Born Again experience then starts. To know Him that is our exchange of Character, Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

After all that Paul had been given, even to direct revelation by Christ Himself. All Paul still wanted to know Him. May that be our greatest and deepest want also, To Know Him.

Now our repentance means something. By the revelation of Christ in us, we know how to change by the teaching of the Holy Spirit of this Christ that is now our life, even unto our Crucified life with and in Him, we can repent and understand how and what to repent of.

Now we can be baptized and show exactly what has already happened in us. Water gets us wet, but being baptized into Christ by The Father's Incorruptable Seed is our true baptism. Water baptism is a wonderful thing to show those around us by a physical act what has already occurred In us.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/5 16:02Profile









 Re:


Reconciliation, as Paul teaches it and we must understand, is more than the realization of the issue of the need for our forgiveness. It is more in that God has restored to man man's access to Him whereby we can be made complete in Him. It is a change of relation from alienation to communion, a reciprocal communion. First it is by the imputation of the Life of Christ by which we can only receive Him into ourselves and then the impartation of the Life of Christ must follow; the working out of the gift of Himself. The grand end of reconciliation is communion as a begotten son. Nothing short of living, loving, holy habitual communion between His holy soul and ours can realize at last the end which God achieved in Jesus Christ. The glory that is ours lies within our realizing that it is His life and Glory within us that is in Union with the Father and we are responsible for its habitation. It will be when, as we realize our responsibility for the habitation that the life changing experience, spoken of in the Bible, will become an actuality to us and a Reality in us. The Reality is for others. It will be that as we learn the Life Christ; the way of Cross, the journey, we will come into son-ship/joint-heir-ship. All who have that Life are children of God by virtue of that Life. We are given the power to become sons of God. Its habitation within us makes us Spiritual Bethlehems where that life is nurtured to maturity in the Father.
2 Cor. 5:15 (KJV)
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



Respectfully,

Orm

 2006/9/5 16:42
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Blake wrote:

Quote:
This is the first step. We need to repent. That is why Jesus preached heavily, "Repent." We need to seek a change. We need to turn away from our sins.



I have found that repentance is a gift of God which continues as we mature in Christ. Without the gift of repentance we would not know the work that God is doing in our life to seperate us from this world. Without repentance that finds its source as God, one would not understand how the Father is transforming into the image of His Son.



Quote:
The next step is being humbled to the point that we not only realize a need for God, but we are willing to accept God for who He is. There are a great many broken people who believe in a God of their own creation, even in the Church. They have shaped Jesus into their image. They are wolves among the sheep.



I have found that those 'who believe in a God of their own creation," to be those who have not been fed by the Holy Scriptures. They refuse to believe what the Scriptures say.



Quote:
There was a time when I thought the cross was all that mattered. In 1 Corthians 15 (forget the verse), Paul says that if Christ hasn't been raised we are to be pitied above all men. The cross was indeed important, but it is in the resurrection that we are saved. Notice in the above scripture that Paul does not say, "If you believe Jesus died for your sins, you will be saved." Rather, firstly Paul established that you must believe Jesus is Lord. This means you must believe in more than Jesus dying. You must accept Him as your King and Lord. You must submit unto Him as the authority and ruler of your life.




Paul states this precept very very clearly in Romans 5:

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

We are reconciled by His death, but we are "saved by His life."


Quote:
I am sure you have heard the infamous scripture Romans 10:13 "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Paul is actually quoting old testament scripture here.(Joel 2:32)



This precept is found thoughtout the OT.

2Sam. 22:7 In my distress I called upon the LORD,
And cried out to my God;
He heard my voice from His temple,
And my cry entered His ears.

Job 36:13 “But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath;
They do not cry for help when He binds them.

Psa. 5:2 Give heed to the voice of my cry,
My King and my God,
For to You I will pray.

Psa. 28:1 To You I will cry, O LORD my Rock:
Do not be silent to me,
Lest, if You are silent to me,
I become like those who go down to the pit.
2 Hear the voice of my supplications
When I cry to You,
When I lift up my hands toward Your holy sanctuary.


Psa. 34:15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.

Psa. 34:17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears,
And delivers them out of all their troubles.

Psa. 57:2 I will cry out to God Most High,
To God who performs all things for me.

Psa. 119:145 I cry out with my whole heart;
Hear me, O LORD!
I will keep Your statutes.
146 I cry out to You;
Save me, and I will keep Your testimonies.
147 I rise before the dawning of the morning,
And cry for help;
I hope in Your word.

Psa. 119:169 Let my cry come before You, O LORD;
Give me understanding according to Your word.
Psa. 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
He also will hear their cry and save them.

3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,

Yes truly the Holy Scriptures teach what comes to those who call on the name of the Lord.


Just some Scripture to illustrate the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of His saints.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/5 20:07Profile
Peacemaker
Member



Joined: 2006/9/3
Posts: 48
Bakersfield, California

 Re: Being Born Again

To be born again means to receive something i.e eternal life. This life is the new life begun by Jesus by virtue of the resurrection - it never existed before that.

1 John 5:11-12 And this is the record that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

Since we who are trinitarians believe the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit then it doesn't matter who you get - it's all the same - you get one you get them all.

Who has the son/father/spirit? I think this was the same question the early church asked. Who is in the church? Who is with us and who is not?

In Acts 10 Peter somewhat reluctantly preached to the Gentiles at Caesarea who had been seeking God but did not know Jesus. Peter shared the gospel and "the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word" Peter knew them because the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out and he "heard them speak with tongues and magnify God" Peter was astonished and said "Can any man forbid water, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" He asked this same rhetorical question when he returned to Jerusalem and reported to the Church and elders that "Forasmuch then a God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Chirst; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things they held their peace, and glorified God saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life?

Some have argued that because of the manifestation of the speaking in tongues as the sign then of the Holy Spirit - which signified unity and oneness of the church, that this should be the same today - I don't think so. Perhaps it was only for that crucial period in the beginning when "Christians" wanted to know who was with us and who was against us.

Although the manifestation may not be the same, the issue still is - who is in the church and who is not? Some want to leave it out there and just let it be the "invisible body of believers in the air" Although this might be true, we live in flesh and blood - don't we need to know? Of course this is now an issue that divides rather than unifies. Perhaps it isn't so important "how" we recieve but that we "have recieved"

If we don't know from tongues - how do we know? I submit it is by both fruit and response to the light. What does that mean? Well if the fruit is apparent (love, joy, peace, patience, gentlenss, goodness faith, meekness, temperance, goodness, righteousness, and truth) and the individual confesses Christ - we really don't have a problem - it is those that confess Christ but their lives fail to conform to what they say. We are content to call the "carnal Christians" I say anethema - that is a travesty and an affront to God - we are not Carnal but Spiritual. Paul was not a carnal Christian - he did not fight this battle in his mind - Romans 7 means before the Holy Spirit - before Christ - the ineffectiveness of the law in producing righteousness - it is not enough to know what is good - you must have the power to do so - it is not by imitation but impartation.

Perhaps we should return to John 3 - everybody's favorite - but verse 19 - "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every on that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deed should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I think it's the same before conversion, and possibly after alleged conversion. Doesn't Matthew 18 give us the process to determine how the church is to respond to someone who has the light shined on them regarding deeds and how they respond. It says that if they won't "hear" the Church , they should be treated as if they were an unbeliever. This then becomes the test - how do we respond to the light of the Lord shined on our lives after "conversion" - are we with the wise who when Prov 9 Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser, teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. However Reprove not a scorner lest he hate thee. Prov 15:5 He that regardeth reproof is prudent, and Prov 17:10 A reproof enterth more into a wise man than a 100 stripes into a fool.

What is reproof - voicing disapproval. Doesn't Ephesians tell us in Chapt 5 "to prove what is acceptable unto the Lord and have no fellowship with the unfruitfulworks of darkness, but rather reprove them. ... But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Paul tells us to Walk worthy, Walk in Love, Walk as Children of Light, Walk circumspectly, and Walk in the Spirit. Galatians tell us in Chapt 6 - Brethren if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, resore such an one in the spirit of meekness ; considering thyself, let thou also be tempted.

He doesn't say don't do it - just do it in humility and meekness,and proving ones own works.

So what I am saying hear is that we have to have a voice - to ourselves (Romans 7 - the log in our own eye) to others individually - and from the Church.

If we are willing to walk in the light as he is in the light - when we see sin revealed, illuninated, exposed, discovered, pointed at, evident, we will repent - joyfully as at the first - in the freedom we enjoy, as fully sanctified souls fit for purpose to do God's will as he see's fit.

If we retreat into the darkness - doesn't that reveal who we are? Of course if we never speak the truth specifically to ourselves and to others - how will they know?

Of course avoiding conflict and all appearances of being "judgemental" keeps many of us from speaking the truth in love. Ephesians only says "Let no corrupt commmunication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good, to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers". It is interesting that although we often interpret "edify" as to build up - but it also means to "enlighten".

Paul speaks much of this to the issue of "Endearvouring to keep the unity fo the Spirit in the bond of peace." Perhaps we should do a better job of fighting for unity by correctly separating light from darkness - something those that are so "tolerant" refuse to do.

And God said, Let there be light, and there was light, And God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness.

We must learn to do the same.


Now must we talk about the wheat and the tares???


_________________
Robert P. Fairman, Jr.

 2006/9/5 22:50Profile









 Re:

Question: If I say I am saved and I point to the Jesus as the reason, am I born again?

Question 2: If I profess the born again experience, am I a disciple of the Jesus?

 2006/9/6 6:30
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Jeff,

Quote:
I have found that those 'who believe in a God of their own creation," to be those who have not been fed by the Holy Scriptures. They refuse to believe what the Scriptures say.



I know many people who have made a God of their own creation from the scriptures.

If a person does not have the Holy Spirit, how should they ever interpret the scriptures properly? Only the Spirit can reveal to them the truth, the Word of God.

Many people, including Christians, use scripture to promote selfish and personal agendas. It is sad but true. This is why we need a close and personal relationship with Christ, where we have abandoned everything to Him and He can work in us. If Christ is not allowed to work in us, then we will be lead wayward.

It is of utmost importance that we, as Christians, daily take up our cross and follow Him, the risen Savior.

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/9/6 8:50Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Phillip,

I think you are responding to my post. I hope so.

Quote:
Are you saying that repentance is the mechanism that makes rebirth possible?



No, I am not saying that. Such a saying sounds robotic, as though there is some formula we can follow and poof, we are saved.

Rebirth is completely and totally by the power of God. We are speaking of His mercy and grace. However, the Lord has given us all a choice. Will we seek Him?

The reason I say repentance is the first step because of what it represents.

When Adam and Eve ate off the tree, they were seperated from God. The Lord was no longer "their " Lord. They were no longer submitting unto the authority of God. Instead, they could choose anything to be their Lord and God.

This is the state of us all. We have replaced the true God with a false God. We have made ourselves to be God, or something else entirely. This, of course, is a most grevious offense to God. We are committing blasphemy, making ourselves to be God.

Before we can seek the true God, we first have to realize this demise. We have to realize that we are a sinner. We have sinned against God. We have to realize our place.

When we can see our own sin, and see that we have wronged God, then we can seek to change.

Repentance is the first step because in that moment we realize or see our sin, and we seek to change.

Obviously, repentance is not completed until we are changed. To repent means that we change, we turn from our sin. Repentance begins when we seek to change and is complete when we do change. We cannot change until God changes us. And so, when we are born again, we have repented.

Quote:
Repentance to what?



The question should be "to whom." And the answer is Jesus Christ. We should turn from our sin to Jesus.

Quote:
Does it say repent and you will be saved?



I cannot think of any scripture that says this exactly. However, Jesus was quoted as saying...

Luke 13:3(NAS) "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Luke 5:32(NAS) "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

Paul also said,

2 Corinthians 7:10(NAS) "For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death."

In love,
Blake



_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/9/6 9:07Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Question: If I say I am saved and I point to the Jesus as the reason, am I born again?

Question 2: If I profess the born again experience, am I a disciple of the Jesus?



I would like to respond even if you were not speaking to me. These questions raise an important issue. I will state it loudly, hoping everyone will here.

THERE IS NO FORMULA FOR SALVATION THAT A PERSON CAN FOLLOW TO INSTANTLY MAKE THEMSELVES BORN AGAIN OR BY WHICH WE CAN JUDGE. AS SUCH, THERE IS NO WAY ANY OF US CAN KNOW OR TELL IF A PERSON HAS BEEN OR IS OR WILL BE BORN AGAIN. ONLY GOD CAN SEE THE TRUE SPIRIT OF A PERSON.

I have stated this, not because I feel anyone has judged anyone, but because it must be made clear. We cannot know another person's salvation. We do not know. We can make a guess, but we must be careful not to judge. Only God knows whose names are written in the book of life.

The questions Ormly asked call us into this role of making a judgement call. "Am I born again?" No person except for God and Ormly can answer that question. We cannot say who is born again and who is not. We cannot be a judge of those matters. That is God's place and God's determination. We are not the judge. We cannot judge.

This does raise several questions.

1) How can I know for sure that I am saved, that I have been born again?

2) Jesus said to beware of wolves and false teachers. How can we beware of these, if we are not to judge?

3) How can I know if another person is saved or not? I need to know if I am going to spread the gospel.

All these questions have long answers, in order to adequately address them. I will attempt to give a short answer.

1) The confidence of salvation comes from Christ. We are assured by His Spirit. Often times, this assurance doesn't spontaneously arise. For some, it is instant, like lightning. For others, we grow into assurance over many years.

Firstly, never stop seeking the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer and fasting. Continually pray and offer yourself to Christ as a sacrifice. Believe in Jesus and give yourself to Him. When you do, Christ will come and work in your life. You will know and see fruit being produced. Your faith will be refined by fire. You will suffer trials and tribulations. These are given to help you grow in faith. Every trial is an opportunity for God to work in your life. As you grow and walk with the Lord, He will give you testimonies, ways in which He has worked in you and in your life that you can share with others.

There are many other things. The most prominent is that God is speaking to you in His small still voice. Are you listening? Are you responding? Do you have a relationship with Him?

2) Of course, we are to beware of false teachers. How can we? Well, firstly, we must be completely and entirely dependent upon Christ. He is our Lord. If we cannot depend on our Lord to lead us, then we are fools. We need Jesus.

There are many tests and things written about in the bible to help us. I could write about all these, but don't really have space. If someone should ask, I will consider doing so and posting in another thread.

The most important thing to realize is that there is a difference between judging a person's teachings and judging a person. To say a person has spoken in error is different than proclaiming they are a false teacher. Do not be so foolish to call anyone a false teacher. This is a judgment call.

No person is perfect except for Christ. Even the best preachers make mistakes. None have been proven 100% right.

This is why it is so important to have a solid relationship with Christ. He will indeed lead us. He will lead us to the messages we need to hear personally. However, He cannot lead unless we allow Him. We need to be completely abandoned to Christ.

3) This is the great dilemma, is it not? How do I know when to share the gospel, if I cannot judge who is saved or not? Obviously, if we are going to tell a person they need to repent, first we have to judge, or do we?

Of course, like everything else, we need to depend on Christ. Having a strong and solid relationship with Jesus is essential. He is the Lord. He will give us the words to say when we need them, if we are willing to be used. We must be open to Him at all times.

Many people talk about our lifetime calling. However, I believe firmly in our momentary calling. God calls us at different moments to different tasks depending on what He needs. We all need to be completely open in that moment. At one moment, you may be called to sing. In another, you may be called to preach. You might say, "I am not a preacher." However, you may be called to preach to one person, who needs to hear an important message.

We all like to worry about the big stuff and dream of big success and power. However, it is in the small steps that God makes the most success. You never know when the Lord will call you to service, or to what. Be ready and willing by sacrificing everything to Him.

Now, we must be careful at all times not to judge. This means we should not say to a person, "You are not saved."

A person must be brought to repentance by God. The Holy Spirit must convict a person of their sin. Therefore, it is important that a person openly admit they are a sinner. If you go around telling people they are a sinner, this will only upset them. They are not going to stop one day and say, "Oh my, you are right. I am a sinner!!" Rather, it is the job of the Holy Spirit to show them their sin. Let God do His job.

Your job is to be ready for God to use you to share. Be ready to share how God is working in your life. Be ready to share about Jesus, His death and resurrection. Be ready to give love.

You don't have to make any sort of judgment call to do any of these things. There are people who have been born again 40 years that sometimes need to hear the gospel all over again just to keep it fresh in their minds.

When the time comes, we will know. God will use us. And when it happens, we will be spent. Some times, I feel as though a hurricane swept through my body and drained me of all my energy. I then feel like repenting myself, asking God to help me because who am I? I am nothing. Why should God use me?

There is no greater joy and no harder work than being used by the Lord.

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/9/6 9:44Profile









 Re:

That was a goodly amount of writing, Been. However, I don't believe it addressed my two questions. Perhaps you could point to a line or two that I may have overlooked. Thanks.

Orm

 2006/9/6 15:06
mastersuse
Member



Joined: 2006/8/31
Posts: 2
London. UK

 Re: How does one become born again?

We become born again by believing in our heart that Christ died for us and washed away our sins and by confessing it with our mouth.
The Holy Spirit then starts the conviction of our sinful ways and repentance and forsaking comes in. We then begin to enjoy our new birth of being saved by faith and grace.
God bless you.

 2006/9/7 7:55Profile





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