Hi Guys,

I would like to weigh in on the Word of Faith Movement.

I used to go to a church of god that was full blown into this movement. I questioned my pastor (at that time) why he listened to these people. Every Sermon he preached, he quoted either Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, TD Jakes, Paula White or other teacher that was in this movement. I told him that it really disturbed me that he listened to them. He told me that he had concerns to, but we cant be heresy hunters ( which is a quote from TBN.)

The day I knew I was in a heretical movement was when the church had the pastor's sister who was healed of Breast Cancer) (praise god) preach, but as the sermon got along, she took every healing doctrine out of context that was in the bible, most importantly Isaiah 53. which can mean physical, but obviously means spiritual healing. But anywho, she said that you WILL be healed of your bodily infirmities if you just have enough faith.

That was the final straw, I wondered to myself, why did the 13 year old girl who had a brain tumor die, she had faith. Basically, she said that the little girl didnt have faith, because she wasnt healed physically (even though she really was healed, spriritually)

I still dont understand why people fall for this deception. This is all Humanism, Materialism, faith to make yourself better on earth theology.

Anyways, I would definitely recommend "Christianity in Crisis" By: Hank Hannegraf (even though he isnt exactly on point all the time) nontheless he still wrote a great book about this movement and the people associated with it. Also, read "Counterfit Revival" By Hank, both well written books exposing that doctrine for what it is, heresy.

P.s. I still feel people are truly saved that are in it, I still know many people who are in it who love the lord, but I dont get why they sit under that kind of ministry.


Sincerely,

Heresey Hunter Matt

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Matt Kroelinger

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

This is how we obtain faith, it is through the righteousness of God and Jesus Christ. Not by what the word of faith people think faith is all about. If you have enough faith you will be healed, if you are not healed you need to work on your faith, oops I died in lack of Faith. If we would have enough faith sister Susie who was a mother of Israel in her faith and work for the church would have been healed.

The Body of Christ is the Faith of Jesus Christ, because "as He is, so are we in this world." Who had Faith enough to save the World from sin? It was Jesus Christ and we that are in Jesus Christ are of the same Faith by the Father birthing His Son in us. We are born again of the Father by the Son we were crucified with, then risen with Him in Heavenly Places, the life we now live we live by the Faith of the Son of God. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]:)

We must see that the righteousness of faith is not something that we ascend into heaven to get, that is bring down the faith from above ourselves and train ourselves by using all the books of faith and build up our most holy faith. No, No a thousand times No. The faith of the Son of God is given us at spiritual birth by the Incorruptable Seed Born Again in us by the Father. Making us son's of God and by The Lord Jesus telling us how to Pray now, "Our Father" which no one had prayed in this way before. By this Son that is in us we have the Faith that God is. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

We have all the Faith there is, we just need to know it. Then use it as Jesus Christ did, He did nothing unless His Father told Him, and in Hearing The Father, His Faith Saves all those that believe the He is the Son of God. In us hearing Jesus Christ that is now our life and His faith by which we now live, may we see and do the greater works He said we would do.

This is the old testament way: Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
This is the New testament way: Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. That is, "Perfect in Christ". Much more than Just trusting and building our faith.
We are One in Christ and also the Father and by the Power and Faith of Jesus Christ imparted to us by the Holy Spirit in Sealing us into Jesus Christ being our Heavenly Faith By God our Father. 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

One more time. 1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. Then Prov 3:5-6 will make perfect sense.



In the Faith of Jesus Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

brethren
i don't know much about this movement but i've heard of the name it anc claim it doctrine (if it can even be called that) and it is foolishness. That being said, i think there is something to this whole Word of Faith issue. it seems to me that speaking the true word of faith, it has to come from the Throne of God, that is it must be unctioned or else it's vanity. i think of when miracles were performed and men said such things as "get up and walk in Jesus' name!" and so on, it seems to me this would be a true execise of the true Word of Faith, it has to be backed by God and it must come from Him.

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Farai Bamu

Pretty much summed up in one Scripture.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Ironman, correct in all aspects where The Born Again's Faith comes form. It must come from God.
"The life we now live we live by the Faith of the Son of God. Amen.

Not faith in until the Faith of becomes our claim.

In The Faith of Christ; Phillip

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Phillip

Don't mean to inturrupt...

One danger of believing this "word of faith" thing is the heresy its brought forth. Some teach that Christ's work was not finished on the cross, but in hell (for 3 days). When clearly Christ said He'd be in paradise. It also teaches the superstitions and mysticism associated with the charismatic movement. Another bad fruit it has sprung is the money hungry televangelists preaching that if you speak to your wallet it will force God to put money in it. Its a formula for twisting God's hand behind His back to get Him to do what you want. Faith is not a tangable force we can use to manipulate God as much as belief is or repentance.

Here is the def: From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Some bad trees have even produced the idea of not praying "in Jesus's name" but to COMMAND God Himself to obey.

Danger? Yup.

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Kristy

I do not promote WOF nor do i know anybody, in the movment, but i do believe that he went into the depths, because he took our sin upon himself, God could not bear to look upon the sin, so he suffered hell for us, he overcame Hell....and yes I also believe he was in paradise too...as he said he would be...
Is paradise and heaven two seperate places? is Hades sheol, and hell seperate places, I don't know but i'am inclined to believe so.
Was the crucifiction (cross) the finished work? or that he died and rose again.? why not all of it?
Michelle


Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.


Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

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michelle

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Noel Pautsky

Like most other respondents to this thread, I don't know the whole story about the WOF movement, but one thing strikes me everytime it is discussed, which is that there is such a thing as a word, of faith, and this comes from God, FIRST.

[b]IF[/b] God has spoken to a person and they believe Him (as Abraham did in his situation), then it is ok to pray [u]for[/u] the thing God has put in your heart, in order to receive from Him.

What is not ok, is .... what has been described already.... being the [i]initiator[/i] of the word which is supposedly 'claimed' [i]as if[/i] God had said it first.

However, there is nothing wrong with honest (needy) supplication, on the understanding that God will always answer.... but in the terms He knows will best bring [u]His wil[/u]l to pass in our lives.

It is a desecration of truth.
It is the clipping of scripture and mangling the Word of God.

It "works" for the leaders and their ministries by fleecing the flock.

It is a lie and a deception.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, [i]supposing that gain is godliness[/i]: from such withdraw thyself.

It is arrogance and audacity.
Presumption and pride.
Evil imaginations kept rather than discarded.

It has and will continue to ruin families, confuse the new born and drag the Name of the Lord to the lowest levels of human selfishness, greed and fleshly desires.

[i]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.[/i] Jud 1:3-19

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Mike Balog