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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Paul say, he is carnal. He also says there is only one way to not be carnal.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Let us serve the things of God in the spirit and carnality will not be a concern. If we live in the flesh we will mind the things of the flesh. If we live in the Spirit we will mind the the things of the Spirit. Carnality is not sin, but sin is the fruit of carnality. We cannot sin in the Spirit it is Christs, we can sin in the flesh if we allow carnality to produce it.

Carnality and temptation are the precursors to sin. Our Minds are the battle ground. That is why Paul can say "with the mind I serve the Law of God, and unless carnality and temptation are filtered through the mind of Christ, whom we have, we will serve flesh and sin.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/22 22:48Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Carnality and temptation are the precursors to sin. Our Minds are the battle ground. That is why Paul can say "with the mind I serve the Law of God, and unless carnality and temptation are filtered through the mind of Christ, whom we have, we will serve flesh and sin.



Carnality is subject to the flesh according to Paul's teaching. In the flesh there is nothing good. The carnal mind is enmity against God.

Where does temptation find it's source?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/23 9:21Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
A carnal Christian is only carnal when he or she is attaining their own salvation by means other that Christ.



This is not true according to Scripture. Paul does not focus on religion, he focuses on behavior.

What aspects does Paul site as the outworking of those who continue to follow the carnal mind?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/23 9:29Profile
artemioL
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Joined: 2006/3/25
Posts: 27


 Re: Carnal Christian

Hmm, none of these posts convinced me of either position. Somebody help! :)

 2006/8/24 1:11Profile









 Re: Carnal Christian

Quote:
Paul does not focus on religion, he focuses on behavior.

Jeff, I don't think you can have it both ways. Behaviour is a result of the choices made by the mind and the body (Eph 2:2). The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. OC writes eloquently about the major role the will plays in our relationship with God. That's why I don't and can never agree with you that the flesh is stuck in Romans 7.

Quote:
Carnality is subject to the flesh according to Paul's teaching. In the flesh there is nothing good. The carnal mind is enmity against God.

Liberty in the Spirit is liberty to obey the Spirit rather than the carnal mind and the old habits which sin laid down in the flesh.

Abiding in Christ (John 15, Gal 5:22,23) is what happens when the flesh begins to bear the fruit of the Spirit, through its obedient rest in His life; that is, the life of Jesus Christ being outworked [i][b]through our flesh[/i][/b] by our agreement, acquiescence and acquisition of 'newness of life' (Rom 6:4) through regeneration. It is not only our spirits which are regenerated. There is a wholeness which [i][b]must[/i][/b] affect our flesh, or our souls will never be saved.... there will be no way our soul will represent that life which we lived in God since we believed - if, as you seem to suggest, our bodies are so helplessly unable to please God.

 2006/8/24 6:57
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
Liberty in the Spirit is liberty to obey the Spirit rather than the carnal mind and the old habits which sin laid down in the flesh.



In this statement you have also correctly condemned the carnal mind. You are absolutely correct in that, experiencing the "Liberty in the Spirit is liberty to obey the Spirit." This is the means by which God has determined for man to escape the corruption of original sin.

Meditate on what the words of Jesus say...

John 6:63

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

First come to terms with what Jesus says of the flesh. Second contemplate what Jesus means, when He says, "The WORDS that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." Do words affect the body or the motivations, the understanding, the realization that God actually does communicate to men and that we can know His love for us because we hear and then understand how He loves us. Understanding can only come from the illumination by the Holy Spirit. The relationship is established on the Holy Scriptures which define the truth. When one begins to realize this truth it becomes a treasure that the carnal mind has not the capacity to understand.

Psalm 119:129-132

"Your testimonies are wonderful; therefore my soul keeps them. The entrance of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple. I opened my mouth and panted, for I longed for Your commandments. Look upon me and be merciful to me, as Your custom is toward those who love Your name."

Look closly to what the Psalmist is saying here about understanding. And then look to the final verse. "Look upon me and be merciful to me, as Your custom is toward those who love Your name." This psalmist understands the ways of God in his life and those who are His children. He speaks of God's "custom."

The psalmist has experienced God's custom toward him because he loves His name.

God Bless you Sis

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/24 9:53Profile
JCGarc55
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Joined: 2004/3/1
Posts: 103


 Re:

I wanted to respond to an earlier post on 1st page. Paul indeed was writing to the church at Corinth. BUT it was pretty much a rebuke and he was telling them to expel the person who was in sin. He also said to not even eat with a person who calls himself a brother and yet continues in sin.

 2006/8/24 10:56Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff,

""The carnal mind is enmity against God.""

The Mind of Christ is Oneness with God.

""Where does temptation find it's source?""

Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Temtation is not sin yet.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

We have the capacity to not sin. By the same James.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Who is the engrafted Word? 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word engrafted is better serviced by the word implanted in the context of the ability to save souls. It is the Mind of Christ implanted in the believer. It is the mind of Christ in the believer that is able to lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, by His commandment, "He who keeps my commandments" it is he that loves me. It is not sinning but keeping and loving, which in Him we have His capacity to do this, just like He did it with His Father.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Carnality is overcome by the mind not the flesh. That is what Paul is talking about. Do you have the MInd of Christ? Is Christ In You? Are you a new Creature in Christ? Is the Holy Spirit baptized into you by Christ? Is the Holy Spirit revealing Truth to you about the Christ in you? Are you baptized into Christ by God the Father and sealed by the Holy Spirit, not water baptism.

If your answers are yes, look what God has done at the Cross. None available before the Cross.
We are truly new Creatures in Christ Jesus.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/25 22:11Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
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 Re:

Quote:

""I wanted to respond to an earlier post on 1st page. Paul indeed was writing to the church at Corinth. BUT it was pretty much a rebuke and he was telling them to expel the person who was in sin. He also said to not even eat with a person who calls himself a brother and yet continues in sin.""

It was for a specific sin, that is a son with his father's wife. When he was rebuked and repented he was gone after by Paul and the congregation to bring him back into the Body of Christ the Church. 2 Corinthians 2:6-9 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

In Christ these things should not even be spoken of. I this man with his father's wife would have known that Christ was in him and the Holy Spirit had revealed this Christ to him, he most probably would have not sined as he did. Corinth was a very flesh oriented city, kind of like Vegas, and New Orleans, and San Francisco. This kind of thing was pretty much ok. When Paul presented Christ to them it became clear that it was not. When he found out he changed and repented and every one new it.

Paul said he was testing them for obedience, This is the only place I have a problem with Paul, in his self righteousness and great revelation of Christ, this is one place I think the thorn in Paul was used.

Again: 2 Corinthians 2:6-9 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

Paul's Gospel is what we are going to be judged by and that is what we have done with the Christ that is in us the hope of glory. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/25 22:45Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Quote:
""I wanted to respond to an earlier post on 1st page. Paul indeed was writing to the church at Corinth. BUT it was pretty much a rebuke and he was telling them to expel the person who was in sin. He also said to not even eat with a person who calls himself a brother and yet continues in sin.""



This is only one manifestation of the sin Paul was addressing in Corinth.

1 Corinthains 3:

"And I brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ."

In this Scripture we see that Paul address the church as brethren who are carnal and babes in Christ. These people have already been addressed by Paul as existing, being in Christ.

There is a insuffieciency that is being addressed by Paul in the church at Corinth. Paul is not able to speak to them as a spiritual people because they would not understand.

What does Paul site as the reason for the brethren's lack of spiritual understanding?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/26 10:47Profile





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