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NLONG
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 111
Middlebury, Indiana

 Thou shall not kill

I saw a wonderful bumpersticker the other day and I thought it would generate lots of good conversation.

"When Jesus said love your enemies he probably meant don't kill them."

I just love it!


_________________
Neil Long

 2006/8/18 7:59Profile









 Re: Thou shall not kill

Thats an anti-war bumper sticker printed by a group of people who otherwise couldn't care less what Jesus taught. They use scripture when it is convenient for them.

I dont know anyone who is pro-war with the exception of Muslim terrorists... but there does come a time when war is the only option. Scripture allows for this, and yes, even in the New Testament.

And I have been in combat situations in Kuwait/Iraq a decade ago. So I know a little about what I am talking about.

Krispy

 2006/8/18 8:12
NLONG
Member



Joined: 2006/8/17
Posts: 111
Middlebury, Indiana

 Re:

Does who made the sticker change the truth of the message? There's just no loving way to destroy life...especially life destined for fire.

True the NT gives wordly authorities the right to bear the sword and that not in vain to keep evil in check.

But not so in the Kingdom of God "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds).

1. Interested in what verses people use to justify Christians killing their enemies when Jesus condemned it.

2. Is the doctrine of a just war of the Devil?

3. Which of our examples Jesus and apostles engaged the world in a worldly way? War that is. If we are supposed to walk as Jesus walked is there not a more excellent way?

4. Which is more powerful--a bullet or prayer?


_________________
Neil Long

 2006/8/18 8:38Profile









 Re:

No, wait... dont misunderstand what I'm saying. There are enemies of the cross, and we are pray for our enemies and love those who despise us. When I was in the Marines I represented a governmental authority. I was a part of a God mandated authority (scripture points out that government is mandated by God... but not always perfect)

I do firmly believe that there is just war. I dont think anyone would deny that Hitler needed to be dealt with. Do you think that believers would have been justified to just sit back and love Hitler while he murdered 6 million Jews, as well as millions of others he sought to annihilate? Thats silliness.

Do I think all of Americas wars have been justifiable? No... I was born in 1967, and tho my dad fought in VietNam, I'm conflicted about that war.

I'm not at all conflicted about the war I took part in. Saddam Hussein needed to be dealt with. He murdered his own people, and invaded another country. Yes, economics was part of the reason we were there. But at the heart of the matter was a murderer. My only regret was that politicians didnt allow us to finish the job... so we had to go back a second time.

Now.. I was not a believer at the time. I got saved a few years after I got out of the service. So I too would like to hear from folks who were in the service and believers at the same time. On that, I cant speak from experience. I was full of hate at the time. I cussed my enemies.

Krispy

 2006/8/18 9:10
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:


"You have heard that it was said,'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strike you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Murray


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2006/8/18 10:08Profile









 Re:

So we should have turned the other cheek when Hitler was doing the evil he was doing?

There are a lot of people here who would hold Deitrich Bonhoeffer up as a martyr for preaching against the Nazi regime... but do you realize he was in on plot to assasinate Hitler? In my book... he IS a hero. Both for standing up for righteousness, and for taking action to put an end to the murder of millions of innocent people.

"As you have done unto the least of these... you've done it unto Me."

Bonhoeffer took action on behalf of the "least of these".

Krispy

 2006/8/18 10:29
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

I would like to respond to all of this:


My brother Will, just left for Iraq last night, well, technically this morning, and should be in Kuwait sometime in the afternoon.

I would like you guys to tell him what he is doing, is wrong.

He will proceed to laugh at you, why, because he has seen the destruction that sadaam hussein's regime has caused on the country, the millions of people he has killed. My brother has seen mass graves with his own eyes.

This will be my brothers second tour in Iraq, and he is proud to serve, and I am very proud of him.

I heard this once said: "For evil to triumph, good men need not do nothing."

This is his second tour out there, did he kill people, yes, will he kill people again


_________________
Matt Kroelinger

 2006/8/18 11:45Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Concerning an eye for an eye, Jesus was quoting from Exodus 21v24. However verse 23 says life for life. That was the first thing that was to be rectified. Why didn't Jesus quote that scripture?

Whilst physical mutilation was now a thing of the past, the death sentence wasn't, and still isn't.

Furthermore, if any nation was to see another nation attack it and not do anything, does that mean that they are now Christians on the way to heaven, even though they practice a pagan religion. No.

Whether saved or not, if under attack, you defend yourself, or so you should.

Again the word of God says, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

King David said when he is for peace, they, his enemies, are for war.

Exodus 15v3 says the Lord is a man of war.

Scripture tells us God has many enemies, and He destroys them.

Revelation tells us that the Lord judges and makes war.

Also, what of soldiers who are Christians and fight in war and kill someone? Do they go to hell?

Do we only send sinners to die in battle and go to hell, while we piously stay at home and pray for them?

It is not an easy issue to address, but needs to be thought of Biblically, not in a secular way which obviously now apparent in the Church. God bless.

 2006/8/18 11:59Profile









 Re:

Boomatt...

Isnt it funny how those of us who have been there and seen it all first hand have a completely different perspective on this whole thing than those who never have been? Of course, everyone has the right voice their opinions, but I'm just saying that if you havent been there you just cant understand it.

It's easy to be an arm chair quarterback.

Krispy

 2006/8/18 13:01
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:


I knew when I wrote that scripture, everyone would get all excited. It says what it says.

If someone was attacking my family, what would I do?

Well why does he say resist an evil person? Turn the other cheek?

It seems we want to explain away, whatever does not justify our actions.

Pray for our enemies.
Bless those that persecute you.

Why did he tell Peter to put the sword away? Those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

These are not my words.

Why did Jesus say these things?

Murray


_________________
Murray Beninger

 2006/8/18 14:07Profile





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