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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why should we follow Paul.

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3393
Ca.

 Why should we follow Paul.

Following Paul's Gospel.

There are many religionists who believe following Paul is heresy. I would have felt the same way many years ago. But by the Holy Spirits leading I came to see that the Scriptures are plain. The only way that a born-again believer can follow Christ is by first following Paul. This is not a mere idea of my own. It is a truth that is firmly stated many times in the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 4:16-17 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.) (1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.) (Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.)

Philippians 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Galatians 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.

2 Thessalonians 3:7-9 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. II Thes. 3:9,

2 Thessalonians 3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

These 8 Scriptures give a heavy weight of truth to the fact that Paul received something special from Christ: something that belonged only to the born-again and the Gentiles. Look at the special things Christ gave only to Paul.

1) Paul alone gave us pure grace. In the Old Testament, the word grace is usually translated to be mercy. Mercy is good, but not pure grace. Mercy is contingent on the recipient doing something to make it possible. This is the opposite of grace. Sadly, too many believers today are being taught mercy instead of grace. In Christianity, grace alone is sufficient.
2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2) Paul alone was given the message that the law of Moses and the laws of the Old Testament are abolished at the cross. Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Most believers today are not taught this because modern religion cannot operate without law. Most born-again believers without the fullness of Pauls revelation will live and die always worried about their law keeping.

3) Paul alone gives to the born-again their final gospel. He received from Christ a message that was strictly to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), and was not a part of, or even a shadow of the Old Testament or prophecy. It begins in the latter part of Jesus of Nazareths ministry in Gethsemane and ends with the rapture of the church (I Thes. 4:15-17). The key to the final gospel is the in-Christ position. The first aspect of in-Christ position was when the sin of the world went into His body as He drank the cup in Gethsemane. From then on everything Paul writes about is contingent on being in-Christ.

4) Paul alone is the one to whom the revelation came that Christ lived in Him. Galatians 1:16-17 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. The revelation did not come to Peter or James or John or anyone else. Christ in the believer is strictly a Pauline truth. It is truth that was never known by mortals until it was given to Paul.

Ephesians 3:3-6 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

It is not only the final gospel, but it is the only workable gospel for todays believers. Yet most believers know little of nothing about it as they are fed man-made religion daily 3/4 devoid of Pauls revelation.

5) Paul is the only one in the Scriptures that had a right to say the revelation Christ had given him was my gospel (Rom. 16:25, Rom. 2:16, II Tim. 2:8). This is important to our understanding. Since no one in the Old Testament knew this final gospel and since Jesus of Nazareth did not teach this gospel (He taught Moses law) and since no other disciple or Apostle preached this message, it is well that Paul called it his gospel. It is sad that modern religion has not picked up Pauls gospel. Multitudes could be blessed if they did.

By Warren Litzman: http://www.christ-life.org/

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2006/8/17 21:24Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re: Why should we follow Paul.

Phillip,

You mean why MUST we follow Paul.. :)
Let's not forget

[b]Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED.
Galatians 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCURSED.[/b]

Thx

In Christ


_________________

 2006/8/17 21:33Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4180


 Re: Why should we follow Paul.

Hi ChristinYou...

Also remember the words of Peter. He equated the letters of Paul to "the other Scriptures":

Quote:
II Peter 3:15-16

(KJV)

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

(NIV)

15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

:-)


_________________
-Chris
Jeremiah 29:11-13
<///><

"Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for?"
- epitaph of Leonard Ravenhill

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
- Jim Elliot

 2006/8/17 22:40Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and that the apostles preached. Paul writes as much about good works, and freedom from sin being a NECESARY part of the christian walk as the other apostles. (Romans 6,7,8, Galatians 5, Romans 11, Colossians 2,3, 1 Corinth 10:1-12 etc). If Jesus is inside of you, and you are dead, you will be changed. Good works are a necesary part of salvation. If anyone says they know God, and keep not his commandments, they are a liar. Jesus said "If you love me, you will keep my commandments". If He is inside of you, if He has saved you from hell, if He has changed you inwardly and turned your heart toward the Father, how can you help but love Him?

The doctrine that Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus is absolutely wicked.

Jesus is the cornerstone, Jesus is the foundation. Jesus is the Rock that we build our Christian lives on. Why then, do we say that Paul's teachings are necesary and exclude Jesus'? Why do we say that Paul's teachings are necesary and exclude John's or Matthews? Is this not saying "I am of Paul". You are not of Paul. You are of Jesus. If you didnt have a bible, (if you were one of 50 million believers in China, for example) you would be taught by the Holy Spirit. Would you then say Paul's teachings are necesary?

Are you not able to say to other believers "I beseech you, brothers, to be followers of me" ? Then there is something lacking in your Christian life. Every believer should come to a place where they are able to say this. Lets be as children, and take the bible plainly for what it says. I thank God that I have not been formally 'educated' in the bible. I thank God that I am still able to take it for what it says. I thank God that I can sit down with the bible every night, and as a child let my Papa teach me who He is. So many I know who have been formally educated have gained the bible and lost Jesus entirely. They are too educated to learn of Him. They are too proud to walk with Him.

Taken as, well, a letter, Paul is clearly telling them to follow his godly example. Jesus also left a godly example. John, im sure, could have said this to his followers. Jesus, by the way, said "Follow me" many times. And "You must...follow me" many times. Did he just mean to his blood? No! You must follow him daily in taking up your cross. You must follow him in forsaking everything to live a life daily with the father. (luke 14) Do you claim to be born again for many years? Can you tell other christians to follow you? You should be able to. If you are becoming like Christ, you should easily be able to say "Follow me as I follow Christ". Paul had been following Christ for many years when he said that. Lets be real with the scriptures. Lets take them as they are. Lets not create strange doctrines that you must be an "expert" to understand. If you must be an expert to understand it, it isnt from God. Wisdom doesnt require expertise and knowledge, wisdom requires (and is) a person, Jesus. Knowledge puffs up, but wisdom requires humility. It requires submission and love for the Father... something that a child an old man, Paul, you and I can all have equally. Something that, if lacking, will prevent us from the kingdom of heaven.

So, lets all say "Follow me as I follow christ." And if you cant honestly say that, then why dont we repent right now! If we cant say that then there is something lacking, something that the bible says should be there and is necesary to know God and enter the kingdom that we dont have. If we have not been conformed to the image of Christ enough to say that, why dont we, right now, get on our knees and repent.

 2006/8/17 23:17Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3393
Ca.

 Re:

Jhn 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1Cr 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:

1Cr 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

2Cr 11:18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.

Gal 4:23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

Paul said many times we are not of this world anymore. He also said, "we are dead to this world". We are new creatures in Christ Jesus.
We are judged by Paul's gospel.

Romans 2:14-16 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

How do we the Gentiles do by nature the things contained in the Law? We do them by the perfection of the Law Himself that is birthed in us. Not by our flesh or by the Flesh of Jesus Christ, but by the Spirit of Christ that is born again in us by the Incorruptable Seed of Jesus Christ conceived in us at birth, that is our new birth by the Spirit of Christ in us the Hope of Glory. Romans 2:14-16 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. It is the Law Himself in our hearts that we are able before God to complete the perfect Law of God. Col 2:10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:

It is not what we do but who we are. Who are we?

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
(shall is not in the translation, it should be; also be delivered, our glorious liberty is already in Christ, which Paul says the Jew's in Jerusalem came to spy out this liberty, because they did not understand it, and they being enemies of Christ because they wanted to put Paul back under the Law to keep him in check with the Jerusalem Church.

This is a different Gospel than Jesus Preached to Israel. "I came to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This is Paul's Gospel that we will be judged by.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

This is the Gospel Paul preaches to every new creature in Christ Jesus. Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

This is the different gospel of Paul that the word speaks of and should be rightly divided or none of this will ever make sense. Ephesians 4:18-23 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

The fulfillment of the Word of God; Paul's Gospel

Colossians 1:23-28 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2006/8/18 19:12Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

Well, I love you. Let me start with that.

But, I dont agree at all with what you are saying. In your entire post, I did not see any difference expressed between what Jesus preached and what Paul preached. Further, I think you are taking what Paul and Jesus said in these passages out of context.

If I told you my ministry was among the Arabs (a group that the Lord has recently put on my heart to possibly have somne heavy ministry with in the future)... and I was writing letters of encouragement to the arabs, visiting them and ministering to them etc... you would never accuse me of saying I have a special gospel just for the Arabs. In my letters to them I may word things differently than Paul, or Jesus, or any of the apostles... but I would be saying the same thing from my own perspective. It would be the same gospel, but written from the way I understand and compute information. If, then, I said my ministry was only to the Arabs... once again, you would not assume I have a different gospel but a different area of ministry.

This is what Jesus was saying. His ministry was to the Jews, yes, in the same way that Paul's was to the gentiles. In the same way that Thomas' was probably to the easterners and eventually to those in India. God's intention was that His gospel should be preached to the entire world, but not that He should do it. His ministry was to remain in Israel, to the Israelites.

Jesus spoke in simplistic ways, using simple parables and straightforward remarks. The Jews thought like this. Paul ministered to the gentiles using complex philosophy and arguments. Though he did preach the gospel in simplicity, he also taught them with an understanding of philosophy and the way the gentile mind works. But what he said was the same. I have never seen any inconsistencies between what Paul says and what Jesus says.

Peter, however, warns the jews of Paul. He says to accept what he says, but to be careful, because you can use what he says to your own destruction. This is because what Paul said was much more complicated than what the Jews said. They were used to a much simpler way of thinking. You can more easily twist his words to your own satisfaction (and destruction). Could this be why a large chunk of the church is insistent on using only Paul's writings? They are not as simple and straightforward as those written to the Jews. But it is the same gospel.

Finally, a test for any doctrine, is not whether or not you can prove it biblically, but whether or not the Lord, by revelation of Himself, has shown it to you in a way that goes beyond biblical arguments. This is something that is not necesarily a feeling, or an experience... but it definitely goes beyond explanation. Lets be honest, anyone can argue anything from the Bible. But did the Lord show you this? Has the Lord shown you this, has He confirmed it to your heart (not just to your head), and most importantly, has it born the fruit of the Spirit in your life and eliminated the works of the flesh.

 2006/8/18 21:56Profile









 Re:

well, Im lost....

Paul to the Corinthians...
[b]
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ"
(1Co 11:1)[/b]

 2006/8/18 23:05
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3393
Ca.

 Re:

2 Peter 3:15-18 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


What you have said about Peter speaking about Paul is not a condemnation of Paul's writings but a specific knowing within himself that the things given to Paul are above and beyond what Peter understands, and the people were going to have a hard time understanding them pertaining to their salvation as those that are not saved have a problem with all of the scriptures.

What God has given me is the same revelation that Paul got on the road and also in Arabia, which Paul himself says was a direct revelation from Jesus Christ Himself. The whole of Paul's revelation is the acknowledgement that he was now a new creature in Christ Jesus, which the world had never seen or even given a glimpse of. The "Mystery hidden from all time and from all person's, that is Christ in him the Hope of Glory." Jesus Christ the Son of God being put into a person was not something that most people would understand. If you were an Arab or Jew and I told you the Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was on this earth for 33 1/2 years then He was crucified on a Cross, died, put in a tomb, then He was resurrected even by His own power which He had to take up or lay down His own life, walked on this earth for approx 50 days, showed Himself to many, then walked into heaven on His own, and the greatest of all these miraculous happenings, He has already come back and in those that believe that He is the Son of God and He had The Holy Spirit from God the Father sent to live in These That Believe and on top of that The Father Himself came also to make His abode with those that believe, if you said this is the Gospel of the whole bible, those that know the bible would say you are crazy. That is why Paul called it his Gospel. Christ in you the Hope of Glory is something that not many Christians believe or even understand unless it just a statement of faith, not a real happening planned by God before the foundation of the World, that God always intended to have His own birthed Children by putting Jesus Christ His Son in them and they would be Children of God living in Gods House with Him, not on this earth with Jesus as King. I may be crazy as the world see's it but this is what God Himself by His Holy Spirit has revealed to me, and yes I have had a revelation of Christ in me the Hope of Glory.

Here is a treatise on these scripture, by Albert Barnes and His notes on the bible. It is long but it plainly gives credence to the truth that Peter was not warning people about Paul's Gospel.

2Pe 3:16
Verse 16. As also in all his epistles. Not only in those which he addressed to the churches in Asia Minor, but in his epistles generally. It is to be presumed that they might have had an acquaintance with some of the other epistles of Paul, as well as those sent to the churches in their immediate vicinity.
Speaking in them of these things. The things which Peter had dwelt upon in his two epistles. The great doctrines of the cross; of the depravity of man; of the Divine purposes; of the new birth; of the consummation of all things; of the return of the Saviour to judge the world, and to receive his people to himself; the duty of a serious, devout, and prayerful life, and of being prepared for the heavenly world. These things are constantly dwelt upon by Paul, and to his authority in these respects Peter might appeal with the utmost confidence.

In which. The common reading in this passage is en oiV, and according to this the reference is to the subjects treated of--"in which things" --referring to what he had just spoken of--"speaking of these things." This reading is found in the common editions of the New Testament, and is supported by far the greater number of Mss., and by most commentators and critics. It is found in Griesbach, Tittman, and Hahn, and has every evidence of being the genuine reading. Another reading, however, (en aiV,) is found in some valuable Mss., and is supported by the Syriac and Arabic versions, and adopted by Mill, (Proleg. 1484,) and by Beza. According to this, the reference is to the epistles themselves as would seem to be implied in our common version. The true construction, so far as the evidence goes, is to refer it not directly to the epistles, but to the things of which Peter says Paul wrote; that is, not to the style and language of Paul, but to the great truths and doctrines which he taught. Those doctrines were indeed contained in his epistles, but still, according to the fair construction of the passage before us, Peter should not be understood as accusing Paul of obscurity of style. He refers not to the difficulty of understanding what Paul meant, but to the difficulty of comprehending the great truths, which he taught. This is, generally, the greatest difficulty in regard to the statements of Paul. The difficulty is not that the meaning of the writer is not plain, but it is either

(a.) that the mind is overpowered by the grandeur of the thought, and the incomprehensible nature of the theme, or

(b.) that the truth is so unpalatable, and the mind is so prejudiced against it, that we are unwilling to receive it. Many a man knows well enough what Paul means, and would receive his doctrines without hesitation if the heart was not opposed to it; and in this state of mind Paul is charged with obscurity, when the real difficulty lies only in the heart of him who makes the complaint. If this be the true interpretation of this passage, then it should not be adduced to prove that Paul is an obscure writer, whatever may be true on that point. There are, undoubtedly, obscure things in his writings, as there are in all other ancient compositions, but this passage should not be adduced to prove that he had not the faculty of making himself understood. An honest heart, a willingness to receive the truth, is one of the best qualifications for understanding the writings of Paul; and when this exists, no one will fall to find truth that may be comprehended, and that will be eminently adapted to sanctify and save the soul.

Are some things hard to be understood. Things pertaining to high and difficult subjects, and which are not easy to be comprehended. Peter does not call in question the truth of what Paul had written; he does not intimate that he himself would differ from him. His language is rather that which a man would use who regarded the writings to which he referred as true, and what he says here is an honourable testimony to the authority of Paul. It may be added,

(1.) that Peter does not say that all the doctrines of the Bible, or even all the doctrines of Paul, are hard to be understood, or that nothing is plain.

(2.) He says nothing about withholding the Bible, or even the writings of Paul, from the mass of Christians, on the ground of the difficulty of understanding the Scriptures; nor does he intimate that that was the design of the Author of the Bible.

(3.) It is perfectly manifest, from this very passage, that the writings of Paul were in fact in the hands of the people, else how could they wrest and pervert them?

(4.) Peter says nothing about an infallible interpreter of any kind, nor does he intimate that either he or his "successors" were authorized to interpret them for the church.

(5.) With what propriety can the pretended successor of Peter--the pope--undertake to expound those difficult doctrines in the writings of Paul, when even Peter himself did not undertake it, and when he did not profess to be able to comprehend them? Is the pope more skilled in the knowledge of Divine things than the apostle Peter? Is he better qualified to interpret the sacred writings than an inspired apostle was?

(6.) Those portions of the writings of Paul, for anything that appears to the contrary, are just as "hard to be understood" now, as they were before the "infallible" church undertook to explain them. The world is little indebted to any claims of infallibility in explaining the meaning of tile oracles of God. It remains yet to be seen that any portion of the Bible has been made clearer by any mere authoritative explanation. And

(7.) it should be added, that without any such exposition, the humble inquirer after truth may find enough in the Bible to guide his feet in the paths of salvation. No one ever approached the sacred Scriptures with a teachable heart, who did not find them "able to make him wise unto salvation." Compare Cmt. on 2Ti 3:15.

Which they that are unlearned. The evil here adverted to is that which arises in cases where those without competent knowledge undertake to become expounders of the word of God. It is not said that it is not proper for them to attempt to become instructed by the aid of the sacred writings; but the danger is, that without proper views of interpretation, of language, and of ancient customs, they might be in danger of perverting and abusing certain portions of the writings of Paul. Intelligence among the people is everywhere in the Bible presumed to be proper in understanding the sacred Scriptures; and ignorance may produce the same effects in interpreting the Bible which it will produce in interpreting other writings. Every good thing is liable to abuse; but the proper way to correct this evil, and to remove this danger, is not to keep the people in ignorance, or to appoint some one to be an infallible interpreter; it is to remove the ignorance itself by enlightening the people, and rendering them better qualified to understand the sacred oracles. The way to remove error is not to perpetuate ignorance; it is to enlighten the mind, so that it may be qualified to appreciate the truth.

And unstable. Who have no settled principles and views. The evil here adverted to is that which arises where those undertake to interpret the Bible who have no established principles. They regard nothing as settled. They have no landmarks set up to guide their inquiries. They have no stability in their character, and Of course nothing can be regarded as settled in their methods Of interpreting the Bible. They are under the control of feeling and emotion, and are liable to embrace one opinion to-day, and another directly opposite to-morrow. But the way to prevent this evil is not by attempting to give to a community an authoritative interpretation of the Bible; it is to diffuse abroad just principles, that men may obtain from the Bible an intelligent view of what it means.

Wrest. Pervert--streblousin. The word here used occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It is derived from a word meaning a windlass, winch, instrument of torture, (streblh,) and means to roll or wind on a windlass; then to wrench, or turn away, as by the force of a windlass; and then to wrest or pervert. It implies a turning out of the way by the application of force, here the meaning is, that they apply those portions of the Bible to a purpose for which they were never intended. It is doubtless true that this may occur. Men may abuse and pervert anything that is good. But the way to prevent this is not to set up a pretended infallible interpreter. With all the perversities arising from ignorance in the interpreter of the Bible; in all the crude, and weak, and fanciful expositions which could be found among those who have interpreted the Scriptures for themselves--and they are many--if they were all collected together, there would not be found so many adapted to corrupt and ruin the soul, as have come from the interpretations attempted to be palmed upon the world by the one church that claims to be the infallible expounder of the word of God.

As they do also the other scriptures. This is an unequivocal declaration of Peter that he regarded the writings of Paul as a part of the holy Scriptures, and of course that he considered him as inspired. The word "Scriptures," as used by a Jew, had a technical signification--meaning the inspired writings, and was the common word which was applied to the sacred writings of the Old Testament. As Peter uses this language, it implies that he regarded the writings of Paul as on a level with the Old Testament; and as far as the testimony of one apostle can go to confirm the claim of another to inspiration, it proves that the writings of Paul are entitled to a place in the sacred canon. It should be remarked, also, that Peter evidently speaks here of the common estimate in which the writings of Paul were held. He addresses those to whom he wrote, not in such a way as to declare to them that the writings of Paul were to be regarded as a part of the inspired volume, but as if this were already known, and were an admitted point.

Unto their own destruction. By embracing false doctrines. Error destroys the soul; and it is very possible for a man so to read the Bible as only to confirm himself in error. He may find passages which, by a perverted interpretation, shall seem to sustain his own views; and, instead of embracing the truth, may live always under delusion, and perish at last. It is not to be inferred that every man who reads the Bible, or even every one who undertakes to be its public expounder, will certainly be saved.

{a} "epistles" Ro 8:19; 1Co 15:24; 1Th 4:1-18; 5:1-28; 2Th 1:5-10.

In Christ: Phillip I know Jesus is in you and by His love, I love you too.


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"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2006/8/18 23:24Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3393
Ca.

 Re:

JFEdgar Wrote:

Taken as, well, a letter, Paul is clearly telling them to follow his godly example. Jesus also left a godly example. John, im sure, could have said this to his followers. Jesus, by the way, said "Follow me" many times. And "You must...follow me" many times. Did he just mean to his blood? No! You must follow him daily in taking up your cross. You must follow him in forsaking everything to live a life daily with the father. (luke 14) Do you claim to be born again for many years? Can you tell other christians to follow you? You should be able to. If you are becoming like Christ, you should easily be able to say "Follow me as I follow Christ". Paul had been following Christ for many years when he said that. Lets be real with the scriptures. Lets take them as they are. Lets not create strange doctrines that you must be an "expert" to understand. If you must be an expert to understand it, it isnt from God. Wisdom doesnt require expertise and knowledge, wisdom requires (and is) a person, Jesus. Knowledge puffs up, but wisdom requires humility. It requires submission and love for the Father... something that a child an old man, Paul, you and I can all have equally. Something that, if lacking, will prevent us from the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said He did nothing unless the Father said so. Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

But as my Father has birthed His Son in me, and sent the Holy Spirit as my Teacher, I speak these things.

John 8:49-50 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour Me. And I seek not Mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

Neither do I seek my own glory but the Christ in me who is the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

 2006/8/19 1:11Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

To simply things a bit here:

The [b]gospel of Kingdom[/b] (Jewish Kingdom with Messiah as King ) to Israel, proclaimed the message of salvation by repentance and water baptism:

[b]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[/b]
This gospel perhaps was a primary call for Israel's repentance from idolatry against the God of Israel, when The Lord was on earth as the rejected King . In essence, it was a [i]gospel of works[/i]. Works to include repentance and water baptism to acknowledging the Messiah as King in lieu of circumcision and Levitical laws.


The [b] gospel of Grace [/b] preached by Paul to gentiles:

[b]Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith,and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"
Mark 1:8
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."[/b]

I'm probably not doing this thread justice by not presenting better in theological term. But this is an interesting topic, one can spend a great deal of studies over it, or study the Book of Acts slowly in details with dispensational discernment.

We should follow Paul because all laws were fulfilled on the Cross already, while Christ Jesus is the Lord to the Church, varied from Him being the King to Israel. We are hereby to walk by works of faith and not by works of the flesh.

Some might protest and say that distinction need not to be made to these gospels, no doubt, the centrality of the gospels is JESUS CHRIST, but one must admit that, Paul's ministry carries much significance for the Church, otherwise, there would be no need for his ministry, God can just use the 12 and leave things at that, that is, no Pauline epistles at all.


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 2006/8/19 11:39Profile





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