"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
I know one thing for sure, hell is not a place I want to end up in.
I agree with you Jake! :-)
quick question though, have you listened to the message:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=282]Ten Shekels and a Shirt by Paris Reidhead[/url]
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2004/1/23 5:56||Profile|
| Re: INTHELIGHT|
InTheLight wrote: "I wish there was no hell, no eternal punishment; but to believe that would be a denial of the Word of God(see Greg's list of Scriptures) and I can't do that."
I am not saying there isn't or will not be a hell for the fallen. Eternal nonexistence for one who thought they had a life would certainly be a kind of hell. I am considering that God is infinately merciful, and also that the Bible says all things will be restored (which would include our innocence! and that this couldn't happen if there was an eternal hellfire.)
| 2004/1/23 6:09|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
These are basic princples of the New Testament. There is no life without Christ. (1 John 5:12). Where there is no life there is death. Also if you read through any book of the new testament and place the emphasis where the bible places the emphasis's then you cannot miss the fact that before we knew Christ we (gentiles) were: 'objects of wrath', 'under the control of the evil one', 'enemies of God!', etc..
Don't just glaze over this scripture, READ it carefully, even read it 4 or 5 times. Pray that God will show you the truth in it.
[b]Ephesians 2:1-7[/b] - for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[b]1 Corinthians 2:10[/b] - but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
[b]1 Corinthians 2:13-14[/b] - This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2004/1/23 6:19||Profile|
| Re: your post|
Wrtbooks, See Agent001's post and read it carefully. I think it indicates that my conception of hell is not in conflict with Scriptures. (btw, Over the years I have indeed read the entire Bible, -- except for Revelations which I just cannot get through -- many times. I feel I have a good understanding of the BIG picture, which is the most important part to get.)
| 2004/1/23 7:30|
Funny that you say you've read the whole Bible except for Revelation because the concept you're tripping over happens to be clearly stated near the end of Revelation in chapter 20.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
(1) 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Now many things in Revelation are tough to interpret and symbolic, etc, but I propose that this section couldn't be much clearer or contrued to mean anything other than what it clearly states. One might try to argue that only the beast, false prophet, and Satan are said to be there forever and then the people are cast in for an indefinite period. I believe that there will be no exiting because the story of Lazarus and the rich man talks about a chasm being fixed between heaven and hell that no one can cross. Also there is no mention of any permanent destruction of the people or any escape. Furthermore, I don't expect that eternity is much like our space-time universe in that I don't think there will be so-called time. We will exist in the states of heaven and hell for eternity. There will be no clock that says "Oh boy, time to let the damned out of the lake of fire!" I don't view eternity as a long time so much the absence of time.
| 2004/1/23 10:20||Profile|
I am considering that God is infinitely merciful...
There are many who want to believe that God is this, and that God is love. Many ask these same eternal questions. Many choose to believe that God's love for His creation far outweighs anything that might deserve God's wrath. I hear this often. I also heard an evangelist, Ray Comfort, preach to this thought.
He spoke to a certain individual who professed the same belief. He quoted from Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before Me." Ray Comfort said in effect, when we choose to hold onto an image of God that does not conform to Scripture, we in effect create our own god. And thus break the first commandment.
Ananias and Sapphira met God on His terms.
| 2004/1/23 12:43||Profile|
In a conversation between R W Dale and Campbell Morgan, R W Dale told Campbell Morgan that he had known one man who, he felt, had perfect right to talk about Hell, and that man was D L Moody. He stated that the reason he so felt was that he never heard Moody refer to Hell without tears in his voice.
Horation Bonar once told Murray McCheyne that he had preached on the text "and the wicked shall be turned into hell".. "and did you preach it with tears" asked McCheyne.
C H Spurgeon ""If sinners be dammed, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go there unwarned and unprayed for."
| 2004/1/24 11:11||Profile|
| If I could imagine what hell would be like...|
If I could imagine hell as the worse state a man can be in, it would something like this...
- To know the fullness of the love of God through Christ whom they have rejected.
- To know what it is like to be in His presence, yet never being able to enter it.
- To have a revelation of the greatness of their sin and wanting to repent yet unable to ever receive forgiveness.
"and they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born." Zec 12:10
| 2004/1/24 12:45||Profile|
| Re: If I could imagine what hell would be like...|
I think you are on the right track. I believe in a real hell, but one of the most poignant comments I ever heard was an 18th century Christian who said
"hell is truth seen too late"
| 2004/1/24 13:08||Profile|
Phoenix, Arizona USA
I believe that the worst torment of hell will be remembering what it was like to stand before the Lord of all majesty and glory at the judgment seat, and then to be separated from Him for all eternity.
| 2004/1/24 15:15||Profile|