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Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: thoughts on criticism...

Quote:
...making assumption that no one on this forum is how they must be as you state they must be



Without assuming these are in fact Matties assumptions ;-) , I do think Ormly is raising an important aspect about fellowship in this forum.

This place requires trust in order for it to be productive. It is understandable if a person requires 'visible confirmation how other people are living before they accept their words and testimonies, but such a visual person won't get much from this cyber-fellowship...because we can't see each other!

This place is an exercise in believing all things, hoping all things. in one another!

Also, I have found that I am most sensitive in others to the things God is convicting me of...in other words it's a safe bet that my concern over an issue in other Christians is really a veiled confession of a plankeye.

We need each other quite seriously and sincerely. This need includes loving criticism with a clear eye on eternity, rather then the moment.

Now as Oswald Chambers says, it is never wrong to criticize a Christian, but it is always absolutely correct. It may be a bad thing when someone says something wrong about me, but an even worse thing that can happen is that someone will puff me up...but in any case my hope is growing daily in the Lord! Purity of heart is determined by the purity of my cleaving to his life, his body...not 'my' ministry. (gag)...what can criticism do to the New Man except bind him closer to Christ? Either through correcting me, encouraging me or by wounding me I intend to abide deeper.

So what power does any have over me except that which has been given by God to bring me along!?

Blessings,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/8/12 15:42Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Quote Compton


This place requires trust in order for it to be productive. It is understandable if a person requires 'visible confirmation how other people are living before they accept their words and testimonies, but such a visual person won't get much from this cyber-fellowship...because we can't see each other!

This place is an exercise in believing all things, hoping all things. in one another!

Also, I have found that I am most sensitive in others to the things God is convicting me of...in other words it's a safe bet that my concern over an issue in other Christians is really a veiled confession of a plankeye.

We need each other quite seriously and sincerely. This need includes loving criticism with a clear eye on eternity, rather then the moment.

Compton, very well said

God is so merciful to us !
mamaluk

 2006/8/12 15:52Profile
Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

I only asked a question and the question was - are we fit to speak such a word? (this is the jist of all I'm trying to say) If God has done His working and we are then thank God and by all means speak it; otherwise we shouldn't be at all and should be careful. I never named anybody specific which is the assumption being made in my statements. I just am amazed that so many feel they have the authority to speak against men and/or ministries. Without naming anyone, I am curious if all these people have been through the fires with God and have come out with the authority to speak such a word that goes public to other hearers and viewers. Is it the burden of the Lord or is it human zeal? That isn't a lack of love or a lack of trust, it's thinking about eternity and putting things into perspective.

 2006/8/12 17:13Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Mattie,

Aren't you doing the same? I understand that you tried to warn us here to "be careful" over a critical spirit, isn't it in a similar spirit that caused you to warn us? Just as if I now write this, will it cause you to warn me not to be critical of you? Does it even matter? You, me, us, he or she? If one speaks out against evil 'ministries', or falsehood, one can help others to beware and withdraw from such.

What only matters is the honor and glory of GOD, and all that's done and said to or against HIM and HIS Body!

A true believer in Christ and in close fellowship with the Word, surely, he/she is fit to speak out against whatever that's contrary to Scriptures. That's probably the least such a one should do, for the sake of the Body. Anyone that comes in the Word of God, with the assent and guidance of the Holy Spirit, critical or not, that's authority. The Lord, Peter and Paul, they all warned us of false brethren and teachers, when we speak out against falsehood, critical or not, we are in HIS will and HIS Word becomes authority.

Would it sound right if I ask you by what authority did you advise, warn, or exhort us? Of course not, because your intention appeared righteous. :) ( I'm not being sacarstic )

Besides, SI's moderators are quite fair and sound, I have yet the need or ever thought to question their authority because I have seen their work and faith in the WORD. Their oversight on SI's been fine, they warn us when we get out of line. :)

Thanks just the same Mattie.

In Christ,
mamaluk


 2006/8/12 18:40Profile









 Re:

2 Tim. 2:15 (KJV)
[i]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.[/i]

If we study to show ourselves approved will we not then be able to make judgments concerning error? If you study to show your approved don't judge the speaker. Judge what he speaks and what he does. However, with these forums speaking is all you have to work with.

Orm

 2006/8/12 19:26









 Re:

"Now as Oswald Chambers says,...."

Glad to read you are into Chambers, Compton. Do you have his complete works?

He is my favorite author. I credit him for helping me see Jesus.

:-Drm

 2006/8/12 19:29
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
Here is another link to a Godly article written by James Jacob Prasch concerning this post:[url=http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/judge_not.htm]http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/judge_not.htm[/url]
"Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end"-Prv 19:20
"A reproof entereth more into a wise man than a hundred stripes into a fool"-Prv 17:10
"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility"-Prv 15:33
"Thankyou Lord for SermonIndex and its labourers"...May the Great Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, continually receive honour and praise by way of this blessed website...
richie


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Richie

 2006/8/12 19:47Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: A Critical Spirit

Hi eveyrone.

After briefly reading through the responses here it appears to me that the emphasis of Mattie's initial post has been missed. Has it?

Here is what I thought Mattie intended for us to take specific heed to

Quote:
We have to be very careful in our judging. While we are called to test spirits and to judge ministries carefully, [b]the spirit [u]by[/u] which WE do it [i]is just as important[/i][/b].



I would like to share some qoutes from another article that seem to fit well with these sentiments.

Quote:
Pure Christian humility, however, is silent about the sins of others [b]or speaks of them with grief and pity[/b].



Quote:
The humble, however, even when they have extraordinary discoveries of God’s glory, are overwhelmed with their own vileness and sinfulness. Their exhortations to fellow Christians are given in a loving and humble manner, and [b]they treat others with as much humility and gentleness as Christ, who is infinitely above them, treats them[/b].



Quote:
Christian humility, [u]under a sense of others’ misery[/u], [b]entreats and beseeches[/b], but spiritual pride commands and warns with authority.



Qoutes from [i]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/i]

What do you all think?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/8/12 21:26Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Critical criticism

Quote:
...what can criticism do to the New Man except bind him closer to Christ? Either through correcting me, encouraging me or by wounding me I intend to abide deeper.


Reminded of a comment from Zac Poonen; "What can you do to a dead man? Kick him, insult him, spit on him ... he just [i]lies[/i] there."

Great post Mike, would have excerpted it, but our sister beat me to it.

Quote:
the spirit [u]by[/u] which WE do it is just as important.

Indeed, again would appeal back to Dianes comments, tricky, especially in this setting
Quote:
The humble, however, even when they have extraordinary discoveries of God’s glory, are overwhelmed with their own vileness and sinfulness.



Right there a case in point and again ... tricky! As it applies to comments about those that come across the opposite of this ...

Quote:
Their exhortations to fellow Christians are given in a loving and humble manner, and they treat others with as much humility and gentleness as Christ, who is infinitely above them, treats them.



Thinking of Paul here* (the apostle) and the first part of the link that came over by Jacob Prasch...
[i]* Correction, James that is


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/8/12 23:09Profile
OverSeer
Member



Joined: 2006/7/15
Posts: 153
Geneva, Alabama

 Re:

Quote:
We have to be very careful in our judging. While we are called to test spirits and to judge ministries carefully, the spirit by which WE do it is just as important.



Everything we do has to be done in love and love will require different dealings in proportion to the ones loved. Love labels poison so that it is not ingested just as love labels destructive heresies and false prophets for the sake of the elect (the ones loved).

Love deals harshly with those who would dare harm its loved ones. False brethren are not dealt with as true ones but are marked and turned away from (Romans 16:17-18) and avoided (2 Timothy 3:5).

Love at times has to deal severely with its own in order to correct and keep safe (Titus 1:13).

Love at times has to correct with gentleness those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth (2 Timothy 2:25).

Love restores a sinning brother (not a false prophet) in a spirit of gentleness (Galatians 6:1).

With all these scenarios we need discernment and wisdom that comes only from God's Word and God's Holy Spirit to know how to deal with each situation.

Do I say that the one restoring a sinning brother in gentleness has the right spirit but the one labeling destructive heresies and false prophets has a critical spirit? Do I cast out the brother who has the gift of the distinguishing of spirits?

How many would misjudge the apostle Paul if they heard him say, "Hymenaeus and Philetus have gone astray from the truth" (2 Timothy 2:17-18) or, "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh" (1 Corinthians 5:5)?

Or what about John (the apostle who wrote of the love of God) who said, "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds" (2 John 10-11)?

If we want to get into the judging that Jesus said for us not to do then all we need to do is to begin to judge the motive or attitude in which someone said something. How do we know that God didn't tell him to say it just that way?

We would never be guilty of adorning the tombs of the prophets and apostles would we? And then say, "If we had been alive in their day, we would have known that they were really God's men and we wouldn't have judged them as being critical."

Yes, the spirit by which we test the spirits and label the spirits is important. But that seems to be a matter solely between God and the man and not one that I can make into a test of authenticity or even Christ-likeness - Even Jesus dealt severely with the Pharisees and scribes (Matthew 23).

We can be too accepting (2 John) and we can be too critical (3 John). So may God grant that we are balanced and may we, "because of practice have our senses trained to discern good and evil" (Hebrews 5:14).

Grace and peace
Olan


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Olan Strickland

 2006/8/12 23:12Profile





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