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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the need for brokenness

Consider these various translations:
he will convict the world in respect of sin... ASV
...make the world conscious of sin BBE
The Spirit will come and show CEV
he will convict he world concerning sin ESV
he will convict the world of sin... ISV
convict the world concerning sin….MKJV

There is a kind of conviction that only God’s Spirit can bring about. At best we can only bring on a partial conviction – yet not the conviction that leads to full regeneration – and acceptance of God’s mercy and grace.

King David’s account of conviction and repentance is one of the most powerful examples in the Bible. His repentance was so complete that he did not suffer from hangover guilt afterwards. He did not resort to guilt-patching operations – to fill in the gaps, but clung to divine mercy. His conviction led him to God’s rest: “My soul finds rest in God alone.” Ps. 62:1

David knew that really only God could cause him to see his sins, and only God KNEW his sins: “Search me O God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” s. 139:23

God had used the prophet Nathan to bring about full and complete conviction. Why Nathan? Nathan walked with God, talked with God, and above all, listened to God. Nathan was entrusted with the deep things of God. He did not move an inch without God’s leading. That's the nature of a true prophet. Imagine how he must have felt for an entire year, knowing about David’s sins. Nathan surely bore the agony during that time. I’m sure there were times that he was just “chompin’ at the bit” – eager to tell David. But God silenced him for an entire year.

And then, one day Nathan approached David with a parable. Nothing more – at first. But it reached David’s conscience. Only then did Nathan apply it to David’s own situation. And the result was effective. David responded, “I have sinned against the Lord” see 2 Sam. 12

There is a lesson here: In our zeal to bring on conviction, we all too easily do it in our own strength – especially if we have not been sufficiently broken by our Lord. Many have never learned to respect divinely ordered silence. Like Moses, many strike down lone Egyptians before they had their “40 years” in the desert – when the “Moses” in them dies.

The real tragedy is not that so few speak out, but that so few are able to speak according to the Spirit’s leading. There are few who have learned to hear the conviction of the Spirit through God’s every day means regarding their own sins – like the honest words of their children, or an employee, or the words of a song, or scripture.. or their spouse…. or inner voice... .

And too many of these people then go out and try to convict the world of sin – and there are no results, not surprising.

May we each be willing to be broken by the Lord. “Then I will teach transgressors your way, and sinners will turn back to you.”Ps. 51:13

Diane



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Diane

 2006/8/11 9:24Profile









 Re:

I read this sermon by George Whitefield yesterday. I thought it would be worth posting



http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1007

 2006/10/14 5:36
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Who ...

Been camping in the book of John much of late, goodness will this ever be exhausted? Seems I have spent the last 7 to 8 years constantly returning, re-thinking, listening ...

And when [i][b]He[/b][/i] is come [i][b]He[/b][/i] will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement.

Control freaks.

It keeps coming to mind. From many quarters. Either by toning things down or by barking out orders. Can hear it in the loud and banner waving crowd of God's abhorance, that image has stayed, posted elsewhere of a placard of a similar sentiment, can't but wonder at the reaction if it might more truthfully had stated;

"[i]God abhores ME![/i]"

Perhaps a bit of a digression, there is just something troubling when the symptoms are overstressed at the expense of the condition. A going after the jugular, rather than the [i]sword piercing to the bone and marrow[/i] and while we are at it, [i]Whose[/i] weapon is it that we are weilding? "Two edges" for good reason ...

Think Diane is touching on some of the same sentiment here;

Quote:
The real tragedy is not that so few speak out, but that so few are able to speak according to the Spirit’s leading. There are few who have learned to hear the conviction of the Spirit through God’s every day means regarding their own sins – like the honest words of their children, or an employee, or the words of a song, or scripture.. or their spouse…. or inner voice... .

And too many of these people then go out and try to convict the world of sin – and there are no results, not surprising.



"Hear".

Could not agree more Diane ... [i]swayed by opinion[/i] comes to mind and this matter, opinion, the amount of emphesis placed on it ... Pardon my disjointedness. The further along on this pilgrimage, the more exacting the sentiment often expressed, well stated by Ravenhill;

[i]The older I get the more I realize every work of the Holy Spirit is majestic.[/i]

Actually, that's not even the quote I was thinking of, more on the lines of... "The more I know, the more I realize that I don't know." The former a better expression here, for this purpose.

Out of these recent days of lingering in the vicinity of John 12 say through 16, something that used to be quite a puzzlement, still mysterious in these failable minds yet a bit of a revelation ...

"[i]My sheep know My voice[/i]"

It began to dawn on me that in fact there is a distinction, a 'sound', better, a tense to the Lords voice. This could all unravel quite quickly here without some clarification...

Reading Jesus' words carries His own authority ...
[i]No man ever spoke...[/i]

His own power ...
[i]"I am He"[/i] (John 18:6).

Even a 'botched' translation isn't enough to stop it, even with all the inherant and associated problems, collectively speaking that is, and not to further the ongoing debate here.

It ought to cut through [i]in spite[/i] of the preacher, teacher, saint. Or even [i]despite[/i]the same. But to draw this back to the matter of control freaks that we can often be if we were a bit more honest ... The amount of explaining, opinion, commentary, mis-application (even unintentionaly) it is a wonder if His voice can even be heard above the din of our penchant to add our voice to it.

All that Jesus stated that the Holy Spirit would do. Who He would speak of, where He would take from and show unto us, remind the apostles and by extension ourselves ...

[i]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you[/i]

[i] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for [u]he shall not speak of himself[/u]; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[/i]

There is so much captured within all these verses ...

[i]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[/i]

[i]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[/i]

With you and in you. Too redundant for us semi-seasoned saints?

It is a difficult attempt at expression here, not the abstract, not necessarily the 'voice' within our head ... the [i]Lords voice[/i]. "It is the Lord!" That expression. That [u]sound[/u]. Even through mangled lips, His voice. On pages with pen and ink, and engraved on hearts like the carving of initials on a tree. Is it not very, very distinct?

Hardly the first inkling of what is trying to escape into words here...






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Mike Balog

 2006/10/14 11:43Profile









 Re: Who ...

"Perhaps a bit of a digression,"

Yes it is a bit of digression


" there is just something troubling when the symptoms are overstressed at the expense of the condition."

Jesus said you will know the tree,(condition) by it's fruit,(sympton)

But enough of human agenda trying to correct human agenda.

If anyone has had a chance to read George Whitefields sermon that I listed I would love to hear your thoughts.
God bless, John

 2006/10/14 12:26









 the "so-called love gospel" and the Book of Acts

sometimes you don't have to say the word "love"

This portion is from Acts 20, when Paul was biding farewell to the Ephesian elders:

"In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus Himself said, "It is more blessed to give than to recieve".

"When he had said this, he knelt down with all of them and prayed. They all wept as they embraced him and kissed him. What grieved them most was the statement that they would never see his face again. Then they accompanied him to the ship".

Acts 20: 35-38

that sounds like to love to me.

bartle

 2006/10/14 14:12
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Whitefield

Hi John,

Quote:
Yes it is a bit of digression


Pardon the exhausting, just something that keeps coming up in prayer of late...
Quote:
Jesus said you will know the tree,(condition) by it's fruit,(sympton)

Quote:
But enough of human agenda trying to correct human agenda.


Not quite following you here, pray it is anything but that. Not really important and actually sequeing right into your question ... Did I ever!
I don't know I have any other thoughts except, yes and amen...

Quote:
And did the Comforter, my dear friends, ever come with such a convincing power as this unto your hearts? Were you ever made to see and feel, that in your flesh dwelleth no good thing; that you are conceived and born in sin; that you are by nature children of wrath; that God would be just if he damned you, though you never committed an actual sin in your lives?


But, whenever the Comforter comes into the heart, it convinces the soul of these false rests, and makes the sinner so see that all his righteousnesses are but filthy rags; and that, for the ;most pompous services, he deserves no better a doom than that of the unprofitable servant,


Were you made to feel, that your very repentance needed to be repented of, and that every thing in yourselves is but dung and dross? And that all the arguments you can fetch for mercy, must be out of the heart and pure unmerited love of God? Were you ever made to lie at the feet of sovereign Grace, and to say, Lord, if thou wilt, thou mayest save me; if not, thou mayest justly damn me; I have nothing to plead, I can in no wise justify myself in thy sight; my best performances, I see, will condemn me; and all I have to depend upon is thy free grace? What say you?

But there is a fourth sin, of which the Comforter, when he comes, convinces the soul, and which alone (it is very remarkable) our Lord mentions, as though it was the only sin worth mentioning; for indeed it is the root of all other sins whatsoever: it is the reigning as well as the damning sin of the world. And what now do you imagine that sin may be? It is that cursed sin, that root of all other evils, I mean the sin of ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/10/14 15:42Profile





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