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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Rapture and 1st resurrection

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GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:



{quote} Blake
There is no evidence that the tribulation is God's wrath.

Blake, I’m puzzled why you would write this. In the book of Revelation, in the verses that speak of God’s wrath, don’t you think that the time spoken about is part of the tribulation? I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to figure out what you are saying when you say this.
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Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


Wouldn’t this mean that there is a temple that has been built preceding or during the tribulation?
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I have or had a hat that says on it, “Get right or get left.” Joshua once said, Choose this day who you will serve.” Any way you look at this subject, the tone of the New Testiment is that they were expecting Jesus to return in their lifetime.
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Recently, I heard a man on the radio say that there is a difference in the terms the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Does anyone believe this idea and can you explain this idea?


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/8/7 22:34Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Blake, I’m puzzled why you would write this. In the book of Revelation, in the verses that speak of God’s wrath, don’t you think that the time spoken about is part of the tribulation? I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to figure out what you are saying when you say this.



The tribulation occurs before execution of God's wrath. It is the tribulation of the Church. God's people will face great tribulation. God's wrath will come upon the wicked after this period of tribulation.

Quote:
Wouldn’t this mean that there is a temple that has been built preceding or during the tribulation?



I don't have all the answers. I wish I did. Alas, I will have to pray over this question.

Quote:
Any way you look at this subject, the tone of the New Testiment is that they were expecting Jesus to return in their lifetime.



Indeed, the tone of our life should be that we hope Jesus to return any minute. We eagerly await the return of our King, the one we love and obey.

In love,

Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/8/8 8:12Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
So all that is spoken of in the gospels is for Israel except a few statements



My dear brother Phillip,

Do you honestly and truly believe this? Everything Jesus said in the gospels was for Isreal only?

Indeed, Jesus came to save the lost sheep of Israel. However, they rejected Him. And so, the door was opened for the gentiles as well. All of what Jesus said, however, was for all His followers. He was speaking to His followers. This includes anyone and everyone who follows Him. If you are a disciple of Jesus, then His words are just as much for you as it is for Israel.

Think about this: a true follower of Jesus is someone who has the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them. A person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless they are born again. However, the Holy Spirit did not come until after the death of Jesus. And so, when Jesus spoke in the gospels, He did not have one true follower yet. Jesus highlighted this fact when He said,

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

Also, think about this parable:

Matthew 22:1-14 (NAS)
1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son. 3 "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come. 4 "Again he sent out other slaves saying, `Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."' 5 "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business, 6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them. 7 "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire. 8 "Then he said to his slaves, `The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 `Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.' 10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests. 11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12 and he said to him, `Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless. 13 "Then the king said to the servants, `Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

In love,

Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/8/8 8:33Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Recently, I heard a man on the radio say that there is a difference in the terms the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Does anyone believe this idea and can you explain this idea?



It was once popular in certain circles to argue that the expressions "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven" referred to two different realities. It is now clear, however, that they are synonyms. This is evident for several reasons. For one, the two expressions are used in the same sayings of Jesus, but where Matthew uses "kingdom of heaven, " Mark or Luke or both use "kingdom of God." Second, Matthew himself uses these two expressions interchangeably in 19:23-24, "it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven … for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Finally, we know that "heaven" was frequently used as a circumlocution for "God" by devout Jews. Due to respect for the third commandment ("You shall not misuse the name of the Lordyour God" [Exod 20:7]), pious Jews used various circumlocutions for the sacred name of God (YHWH) in order to avoid the danger of breaking this commandment. One such circumlocution was the term "heaven." This is seen in the expression "kingdom of heaven" but also in such passages as Luke 15:18, 21 ("Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you") and Mark 11:30.

by Robert H. Stein
taken from ---> Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology.

To read the entire article, go here:
[url=http://bible.crosswalk.com/Dictionaries/BakersEvangelicalDictionary/bed.cgi?number=T411]http://bible.crosswalk.com/Dictionaries/BakersEvangelicalDictionary/bed.cgi?number=T411[/url]

Hope this helps,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/8/8 8:43Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

"""Think about this: a true follower of Jesus is someone who has the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them. A person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless they are born again. However, the Holy Spirit did not come until after the death of Jesus. And so, when Jesus spoke in the gospels, He did not have one true follower yet. Jesus highlighted this fact when He said,"""



My statement: "So all that is spoken of in the gospels is for Israel except a few statements"

Whole statement: "So all that is spoken of in the gospels is for Israel except a few statements that agree with Paul's giving of the end times for the born again son's of God."

Your quote is confirming my statement. Yes I truly do believe that Jesus came to Israel only, in the Three Gospels to offer the Kingdom to them who were supposed to show the rest of the world, God. Jesus did begin to bridge the gap between Law and Grace and Israel and Gentiles, but as I said, Paul is the one that finished the gap and presented the fulfillment of the Word of God, being Christ in us by which we will be judged in all the secrets of men.

Statements of I am the vine you are the branches are bridging the Gap to the final gospel of Paul. The born again are not Israel on this earth. Jesus was speaking to Israel in the synoptic gospels. Only John picked up on what was going to happen at Pentecost. John showed Who and what the Holy Spirit would in the new gospel that would be completed by Paul. Chapters 14,15,16,17 clearly give us what the Holy Spirit would do when He came to be "in you". The Holy Spirit would seal us into Jesus Christ and teach and speak of what Jesus Gave Him to say about Jesus and His Church, renewing our minds to the Mind of Christ and the Spirit of Christ being our new birthed spirit by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that we would believe.

If we see this separation of Israel and the Church it makes the whole of the New Testament come together and able to rightly divide the word of God and see the plan of God for Israel and for the born again son's of God. Are not the born again, new creature and heavenly beings seated with Christ already in Heavenly Places? Israel is an earthly being nation and will always be, including after the tribulation and during the millennial Kingdom of Christ and in the New Heaven and new earth, where God and His Christ will rule forever.

I will not make what God by the Holy Spirit teaches you about the Kingdom and end times doctrine make you look like an idiot by my putting you in a light that you don't know what you are talking about. No person can have all the truth, they would have to be God, but with our total knowledge of the truth by the teaching of the Holy Spirit will bring us closer to the truth Of God. I am not trying to make you wrong, I am trying to make your spirit give my spirit more when it comes to learning this Christ that is in us.

Also in Love, and in Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/8 14:50Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear Phillip,

What then do you make of these scriptures?

Romans 2:28-29 (NAS)
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Galatians 3:28(NAS)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/8/8 16:33Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


"Is not a Jew"; in the spiritual sense, that of being a friend of God, being only Outwardly; by outward descent from Abraham. Neither is that outward circumcision; in the spiritual sense; that which God approves and will reward as obedience to Him. The only reward we will receive is what God Has done with His Son that is birthed in us. Thus Him making a sign as of circumcision in the Born Again, of making that which made Israel the chosen of God, the people of Israel. Israel, Outward circumcision, Christians, Inward circumcision that is of the Spirit of Christ, not of the outer cutting away of the flesh.

What is the sign of a Christian? It is not outward circumcision, but as being a sign of God to the world in the outward flesh, the Christian is one that is inward, that is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory." Our outward appearance is that of One Body and One Spirit in Christ, His Body the Church. That is, which it is supposed to be. But falling short trying to be circumcised Israel.

1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Phl 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

We don't need circumcision, that which is a sign of God chosen people of Israel. We have and inward sign in our hearts and that is new creature with God the Fathers Christ birthed in our spirit, which we are now inwardly The Children of God and not the children of Satan. This is the Rock of our salvation, that is the revelation upon which Christ will build His Church, That is "Christ In you the Hope of Glory", our Circumcision.

Praise God for Israel through whom our Seed was given, that Is Jesus Christ, The first born among many. We are all the second born among many, whether Greek or Jew, it does not matter, what does matter is: Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: That is new creatures in Christ Jesus.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
That is new creatures in Christ Jesus.

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Christ is our circumcision, cutting away our stony heart and giving us a heart of flesh, that is quickening even our outer flesh by the Holy Spirit, that we might be"Perfect even as or Heavenly Father is Perfect".

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/8 23:27Profile





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