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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Didn’t Martin Luther use drinking and bar tunes in his music?

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Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


some of you are totally missing it.

kingjimmy, the word rock is not in the bible because it didn't exist back then. but the word flesh is. and it is so obviouse that many rock bands is full of flesh, this includes 3rd day. have you been to a 3rd day concert? if you can't see that most rock band screams out its all about ME, then i can't go on and speak to you guys. you aren't ready to see truth in this area.

iansmith, i agree we can't blame musicians for the lukewarm churches. the leaders don't preach the true gospel , but most musicians don't either so they are not helping, but feeding into the lukewarm gospel.

if you read my posts, its not that i'm putting the style of the music down, but more exposing the motive. look at the way they dress, put out videos, their lifestyle, their homes, their speech, their concerts, their dove awards. it is just sooo obviouse that many are using God's name to glorify themselves! this is sick!

and if the youth are wanting to be christians just for rock music and desire to go to a church for the good rock music then they are going for the wrong reasons and i would question their salvation. most youth are going to church to be entertained. thats the problem!

i just don't understand why this is sooo hard to see. maybe because music is an idol to so many christians.


 2006/7/25 11:03Profile

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


Also, there is a Kirk Franklin CD that my fiance owns that I have borrowed and personally been blessed by it. I'm not really a big fan of rap to begin with. However, I have found several of his Christian rap songs extremely edifying, and extremely worshipful.

i saw him on a very famous american tv program i dont waych that program but i saw this man there and i watched what he had to say..and if i remember correctly he said he was for so many years addicted to pornografy...he used to get up on stage and sing and do his thing and then back to his hotel room and watch dirty movies... and the problem whit this he said was that the kind of people that were his fans... he did not once mention that the problem was that he sined against god...the problem was what his record buyers would think of him now... he said he had confesed this thing and had overcome this sin now, i thank god he did, and i hope he is right whit god. But sadly as i remember it his main problem was what people would think of him...not what god was thinking of him...

i do belive christian rap can be good for spreading the gospel... so can christian rock... and others... but we need to be careful

when ccmers qoute william booth like that...i wonder what he would say if he were alive?.. do you think he would go up and join them singing?
im havent read so much by william booth but the little i have, makes me doubt that he would.

still the thing that conserns me is what is that make people so hang on to something like that? it can be can be rap it can be something can even be a dog! here is a link to a sermon by art katz...its very strong about giving up things to follow christ...

if one cant even give up sertain music..... how can one sell everything and follow christ?
just some thoughts...


 2006/7/25 11:56Profile

Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


Any objection to the carryings on of our present gold-calf Christianity is met with the triumphant reply, ”But we are winning them!” And winning them to what? To true discipleship? To cross-carrying? To self-denial? To separation from the world? To crucifixion of the flesh? To holy living? To nobility of character? To a despising of the world’s treasures? To hard self-discipline? To love for God? To total committal to Christ? Of course the answer to all these questions is no.

 2006/7/25 12:05Profile

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL



most youth are going to church to be entertained. thats the problem!

I don't disagree that this is a problem, but I would argue its not relegated to the youth... the vast majority of church attendance is due to either a desire for entertainment (as you have rightly discerned) or as Charles Finney put it, [url=]The Religion of many persons is mere Slavery.[/url]

A few years ago I attended a 'Contagious Christianity' conference put on by a well known mega-church that was traveling the country... although they prefaced everything with the facade of evangelism... it was almost a carbon fiber copy of similar corporate events I’ve participated in as a lay person. Instead of relying on the inherent beauty of the gospel to bring people to Christ we try to bring people to Christ by creating an experience with our own talents and created beauty, oh the shame! They kept talking about the need to create an experience, only Christ can create the experience that brings one into a true relationship with Him! That is the problem with the church today; people think that we need to sell a product when in fact the gospel inherently sells itself!

The modern church, CCM, Christian publishing and media are all caught up in trying to create an experience that will attract seekers... one only has to listen to the hosts on the local Christian Radio station (105.3 here in Seattle) to know that they are “seeker focused”... to their own detriment!!! For the sake of the widest possible distribution they water down the message until it is almost indistinguishable from worldly media (besides being family friendly).

We need to remember that Jesus went across the lake for one man! Instead, the church of America has cleaved away anything offensive from the gospel, anything requiring sacrifice or obedience in order to reach the broadest group with the most tame and powerless Gospel! How do we expect musicians to speak hard truths when our pastors aren’t willing to! Your priorities are misplaced!

Ian Smith

 2006/7/25 12:18Profile

Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


ian's quote
"How do we expect musicians to speak hard truths when our pastors aren’t willing to! Your priorities are misplaced!"

well, the pastors don't have a gun to their heads to stop them from preaching the truth if they so desire.

the reason why i brought up musicians and not focusing on the pastor because this topic is about music.

like i told you, ian, i agree that the big part of the problem is the leaders of the church, but we can't keep blaming leaders for our own walk. God gave musicians a mind of their own too, to come out of the lies and into the truth.

and if muscians do desire to speak hard truth and their pastors won't allow them then leave the church, but don't keep being lukewarm because the pastors want them too. thats a cheap blame on the pastors.

ian's quote
"We need to remember that Jesus went across the
lake for one man!"

if you truly desire to minister to the lukewarm church you will either get kicked out or start a revival. believe me i stayed in my church more than i wanted too , but for the love of God and the people motivated be to stay. i did not so easily run away because i came to knowledge of truth, but i stayed for a long while to win some for God and in obedience to the Lord. i left when it was clear from God to go. 3000 people left after me. not because of me, but God shook that place.

God used me to even speak to the musicians, to encourage them in the truth, but they desire fame more than the truth. i am not boasting, please no that, but i went thru so much pesecution from the musicians and the leaders of the church because i dare to touch their entertainment. but every prophecy that God told me to speak to them came to pass and still they rebelled even more and now they are no more.

it was like jeremiah, the leaders knew i was annoited for this task, they even desire to know from me what God is saying and saw many of my prophecies and dream came to pass, but just like the king, they refuse to obey and because the leaders refuse they all are no more at that church. God lifted up the skirt and expose their nakedness (wickedness). i'm not saying this with joy in my heart. believe me, while i was their i pleaded with God for that church and stood in many sleepless nights standing in the gap for that church. i morn so long for that church even when all was done that God had to tell me to get up and stop looking back. kinda reminds me with samuel morning for saul.

i have to say, i grew very much in that church. i learned that it will cost you much just to speak or hear one word from God. and if you dare play the hypocrite while speaking the truth, He will expose you and judge you more strickly.

so i share this with you to let you know i don't easily run away from souls after sharing the truth. relationship evangelism is acually more harder to do. if people think its easier its because they are not preaching the truth.

if you are lead by the Spirit to be use in a lukewarm church you are going to shake that place . if not, are you really preaching the truth there?


 2006/7/27 18:50Profile

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