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Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Azusa Street

Can anyone tell me where I can find some Sermons or Testimonies during this time.
I have read some of the Testimonies, and my soul hungers for more of our Lord.
God Bless
Nellie

 2006/7/21 9:14Profile









 Re: Azusa Street

Personally I think you'll find more of the Lord by studying His Word fervently, and not in "revivals" such as Azusa Street. After reviewing the doctrines and teachings of those involved in the Azusa Street phenom I have concluded that with the all the unBiblical teachings and false prophecies, this could not have possibly been a movement of God.

Stick to His Word, and dont chase after movememnts in order to find more of Him.

Krispy

 2006/7/21 10:43
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
After reviewing the doctrines and teachings of those involved in the Azusa Street phenom I have concluded that with the all the unBiblical teachings and false prophecies, this could not have possibly been a movement of God.



That's quite the statement, Krispy. You're basically concluding that the Assemblies of God church (which was born in the fires of Azusa Street) is of the devil. Which basically implies that David Wilkerson is deceived, Ravenhill (who endorsed Pentecostals like Wigglesworth and Lake) was deceived, and preachers like Jim Cymbala are deceived, etc.

I don't want to argue this, but, please, if you're going to make a statement like this...please substantiate it! What false prophecies? What "unbiblical" teachings are you referring to?

BTW, you're right about sticking to the Word! God bless.

In meekness, Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/7/21 10:56Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
Personally I think you'll find more of the Lord by studying His Word fervently, and not in "revivals" such as Azusa Street.



Quote:
Stick to His Word, and dont chase after movememnts in order to find more of Him.



Hi Krispy, although your counceles are great, I think they are not on right place,time and manner, and instead encouragement they can produce the opposite. Do you know sister Nellie?

Kire

 2006/7/21 11:20Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Krispy...

I agree with the need to study the Word fervently in order to distinguish between Truth and error. There are indeed a lot of false teachings that are accepted by many believers. I have read many things about Azusa Street -- both pro and con. Unfortunately, it is difficult to pass judgment on the revival -- because I was never there (in fact, I'm not certain that my great-grandmother was even born at the time).

I have a few friends that often traveled to the Brownsville Revival in Pensacola. They went on and on about how this was "the beginning of the last day outpouring as discussed in Joel and Acts chapters 2." Yet another friend of mine attended, and he wasn't impressed at all. He said it just felt like a lot of excited people got together that truly wanted a move of God. This friend told me that he realized that the greatest "move of God" or "revival" should happen primarily in the heart and in our own prayer closets. He told me, "If you can't find God when you are alone with Him, then it will be difficult to find Him in a gathering."

Was Azusa Street a true move of God? A lot of good did come out of it (according to books). At the same time, there were some strange things too (according to books). But I do not hold any first hand knowledge of the situation in order to pass any sort of final judgment. I feel that premature judgment is always dangerous.

I believe that a timely warning is found in the message [i]A Christless Pentecost[/i] by David Wilkerson. Another good resource is found in the book [i]They Speak with Other Tongues[/i] by John Sherrill (who co-authored [i]The Hiding Place[/i] with Corrie ten Boom, [i]God's Smuggler[/i] with Brother Andrew, and [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i] with David Wilkerson).

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/7/21 11:36Profile









 Re:

In my defense, please note that I am not nor will I not call anyone's salvation into question. However, I believe many of the doctrines born out of the Azusa Street movement to be false. And yes, that means I believe many of the AOG denominations doctrines (which I was once a part of) are false. The biggest one being that if you have not spoken in tongues you have not been Baptised in the Holy Spirit. Thats simply not scriptural.

Perhaps my statement was not taken as encouragement (tho thats not how it was intended), I dont see how saying nothing helps either.

If someone is searching for more of God I wish to point them in the right direction... not just remain silent while they look in the wrong places. How is that helping?

Everyone is free to disagree with me. But I stand by what I said. I also reject what people think I said... meaning that certain individuals are of the devil. I never said that. I believe you can be saved, yet be deceived on certain doctrines. I know my doctrine cant possibly be 100% correct too as long as I am alive in this sinful body.

If a doctrine is false and unscriptural... it is not of God. Period. Never said certain people were of the devil.

For those who dont know this about me, I was at one time very much involved in the Word of Faith Movement, read books by Hinn, Hagin, etc, and have been to the Brownsville "revival". I know of what I am speaking about by first hand knowledge. I was deceived at the time... but I was also saved. I got saved in a Charismatic Church. Everyone also knows that I reject modern Bible versions... yet it wasnt long ago that I was a die hard NIV supporter.

Krispy

 2006/7/21 12:02
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: Azusa Street



Dear Nellie,

If you haven't read Azuza Street by Frank Bartlman yet, you will be blessed.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/7/21 13:17Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


{quote} Krispy

I never said that. I believe you can be saved, yet be deceived on certain doctrines. I know my doctrine cant possibly be 100% correct too as long as I am alive in this sinful body.
................................................

Yet most discernment ministries take the position that they know everything or at least talk like they do. if I am not careful, I end up following their lead and end up pulling tares and end up in their silly debates about things that don't profit anyone. Sometimes I have all my Indians lined up for battle according to scripture, yet when I see my own heart, I find it is only a prideful flesh on my part that has no compassion for the person I'm dealing with or anyone else. Maybe I win a debate in this fleshly state, but is this really what I want?

Things are different when I walk in the Spirit though. Instead of tearing down and criticizing everybody, the words of my mouth edify. This is what I really want; to speak words that edify the body of Christ and bring glory to the Lord. You do to, right. :-)

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/7/21 14:42Profile
boomatt
Member



Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia

 Re:

If something is false, it is false. Krispy has found things in the Azusa street revival that are unbiblical, we are to expose false doctrine.

I dont feel you are tearing someone down when you try to steer them away from the false, I dont know exactly if this revival was a true move of god or not, I was not there. I do know that the pentocostal church is and has been in some serious trouble as of late, and one of the biggest problems I have with them is the use of tongues, and that being the evidence for the baptism. I would like to see some evidence in scripture.

Just because Ravenhill and wilkerson talk good about something, doesnt make it perfect. I was saved at a Times Square Church crusade, so I have nothing against Wilkerson, but they are not perfect.

I hope this helps, not hurts anyone

god bless

boomatt


_________________
Matt Kroelinger

 2006/7/21 15:04Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
If something is false, it is false.



Of course, but the problem here is that nothing has been [i]proven[/i] false. This is merely someone's own personal belief. It is wrong to cast a blanket statement over the entire Azusa Street revival just because you're not convinced tongues accompany Spirit Baptism. That's like me casting a blanket statement over the Southern Baptists as being lukewarm because they're not spirit-filled and flowing in the gifts. It's foolish. You can't prove to me from scripture that tongues do not accompany Spirit baptism, and conversely, I can't prove to you they do. I can show you many cases in scripture where they actually did, but this doesn't prove that it ALWAYS must happen in the same manner. God is sovereign. Plus, the issue has nothing to do with salvation.

The reason I've made a big deal of this is to not argue doctrine; Nellie was obviously being blessed by studying the occurence of what many believe was a genuine move of God's Spirit at the beginning of the last century. The world missions movement which was birthed in the revival planted churches all over the globe for Jesus Christ. Stories abound of missionaries who only spoke English suddenly speaking in foreign tongues, praising God in languages only known to savages. Whole tribes would get converted. But someone with a biased theological perspective discouraged Nellie from examining it any further by passing a judgment that "the whole thing was false." Well, okay. But you had better be right, bro!

Remember, we know things only in part.

The whole "third wave" thing and Word Faith movement is a separate issue. I totally agree with you. I don't like that stuff either. But Azusa Street was different, and it has the fruit to back it up.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/7/21 15:38Profile





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