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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : SUPERFICIAL REVIVALS -Finney

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi n7rooivalk7n,

Quote:
Isn't that the same as what some of these holiness people are doing. They are trying to be "holy" through their own power and then secretly boast about it in their hearts?



Could be. I think maybe it varies from person to person. By and large I believe most want to really live right and serve God in obedience. I also think it is due to some bad teaching or good teachings gone mad.

For Finney and others like him there was a strict standard of 'holiness'. But holiness is not a legalistic lifestyle, but a life led of the Holy Spirit producing the fruit of the Spirit. Could you imagine it being a sin to salt your food because you were eating for pleasure and not sustenence? No sweets because they are tasty and we could not have tasty foods as that would be decadence. No flowers either. Why? They cumbereth the ground.

When ministers in the old days had ran out of sermons they started preaching their convictions. Many of them fell in the faith. Why? They could not live their own 'gospel'.

Moreover, there are things that some repentance preachers think is 'OK' to do that would make a guy like me cringe. They preach a strong message, but the longer I "listen and watch" the less I am hearing what I am hearing. So there is a serious communication break down when it comes to this whole topic. When I think of 'perfection' I am looking at a certain pattern of life [u]and[/u] the consequences that [i]not[/i] living that brings. Some perfection ministers believe in a strong security for the believer; others have their hearers on a tight rope.

Some perfection ministers believe in the 'tight rope' thing, but their standard of perfection only extends to a certain point. So it is a mixed bag in these circles that can cause some serious misunderstandings. Some take such a strict view of the scriptures that they remove teachings that bring balance to keep the noose as tight as possible on a persons life. I'm just being honest here. They are looking for reasons to cast a person into hell it seems. This is not right and I think it is an attitude God needs to deliver some folk from.

And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. (Luke 9:53-55)

This is what I see happening today. Folk are ready to rain fire upon people who do not 'receive Him' or 'them' and their teachings. This is the wrong spirit. It is not the attitude of the Holy Spirit. This is man reacting in frustration at being rejected. This is man unable to control folks and getting angry about it. If they don't get the message, we'll just "turn up the heat". This is the carnal mind. This is preaching from the wrong motivation. What did the Lord say? [i]But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.[/i]

This is a vicious circle. If the message mis- presented then God will not back it. If God does not back it then the people will not respond. No response = more frustration. So on and so forth until you literally have people carrying signs that say, "GOD HATES YOU!!" Why not just do what you're told? If they reject the message don't resort to name calling or pressing in with more and more heat. Wipe the dust off your feet and move on.






_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/7/17 15:31Profile
n7rooivalk7n
Member



Joined: 2006/6/30
Posts: 11
South Africa

 Re:

Hi RobertW,

I think the reference you made to Luk 9:53 is crucial indeed. It's not always somuch the physical actions that we do that count, but the spirit behind those actions. Two people can both do the same action, e.g keeping from immorality, but the one does it out of self-justification, the other because the joy of serving and knowing God drives him to it.

A last thought that I want to convey is that of love. The bible says that faith works by love. I really believe that throught the operating of the love of Christ in our lives we can make a deep impact in others lives. Telling people the truth is important (it might include hell-fire preaching from time to time), but it must be coupled with the love of Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 13 says afterall that we can achieve nothing if we have no love. If we have no love our actions are of no worth. Where there is no love, there is death, death and more death. A very somber picture


_________________
Johann

 2006/7/18 12:58Profile





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