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brentw
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Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Is knowledge of revival choking us?

I have been re-reading lectures on revival by Finney.
I think if I ever read a book that had "everything" in it you need to live the christian life....its in there!

One thing that stands out is he says 'doctrinal knowledge gives us a temptation to think we're more spiritual'.

Another thing he says 'Are you here to gain more knowledge of revival or to obey what the Word says about it.'


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Brent

 2006/7/14 22:48Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Is knowledge of revival choking us?

brentw wrote:

Quote:
One thing that stands out is he says 'doctrinal knowledge gives us a temptation to think we're more spiritual.


If it's good Doctrin, it should bring us closer to Christ and therefor bring many more to Christ out of unfeigned love.

 2006/7/15 0:02Profile
WorldView
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Joined: 2006/7/10
Posts: 94
Davao, Philippines

 Re: Is knowledge of revival choking us?

I have been taught by a great minister who is very knowledgable in the history of revivals and of great men and women of God. He explains that by studying past revivals we can learn how they came about and how to avoid where they went wrong in them, that caused them to colapse.

In other words, learn from the past.


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Keith

 2006/7/15 1:27Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
doctrinal knowledge gives us a temptation to think we're more spiritual'.



With all of our plentiful publishing and audio resources, it seems possible that we can learn about the visible outside effects of true conversions, and love for God before we have a chance to come into a real experience or understanding of the inner cause...as was once observed here on this forum, we often try to 'do' church without knowing how to 'be' church.

All of this 'love' for God, and knowledge of divine things abundant in the mainstream church certainly seems to illustrate the idea "Having a form of Godliness while denying the power."

Spending a little time with Jonathan Edwards, or the Puritans reveals that today's concept of loving God is a much more sentimental affair, as compared to the way of holiness it once was preached as. Accordingly worship music has become a huge business, so there must be plenty of people 'worshipping' something.

In the end, we often seem to be too interested in what we want, and how we want it, and I'm sure 'revival' is no exception. If revival comes in a pleasant orchestrated fashion according to something we imagine, no doubt we'll spoil it by video taping it, writing books about it, and selling music inspired by it. Some will even try to own and brand it.

Perhaps a proper revival may only come in a severe period of grief and trial, a shadow of dispair or even death that turns our public dancing into private mourning...something that would kill any vanity towards revival, with hearts deeply and obediently only towards God.

Of course, all things are possible with God, so I wouldn't want limit my prayers to only my imagination or unbelief.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/7/15 5:16Profile
JFEdgar
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Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re: Is knowledge of revival choking us?

I have to answer the subject of this thread with a resounding YES!

If we are not living out what we learn through real Faith in it, knowledge will only kill.

The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. If all we do is waste our time with the letter, and it is theoretical, on paper, we will simply be lifeless. But when it is quickened to us by the Spirit through faith, we find Life in God!


For some, the more you read the closer you get to Jesus. For others, it seems, the more you read the worse it is for you. The farther you get because it is only draining you Spiritually. Without the practical outflow in daily life, it will only ever produce a dead theoretical ideal that you will never attain to.


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Joe E

 2006/7/15 12:34Profile
brentw
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Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

After re-reading some of Finneys lectures...I get blown away more and more how far christianity has strayed away from what it used to be, and how it should be!!

Like Finney said only a revival will bring us back to what we should be!

I also get blown away of how many call themsleves christian and have no part with Christ.

I have to be honest....sometimes I sit back and say to myself 'what in the world is going on?'


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Brent

 2006/7/15 16:34Profile
letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

I remember listening to how Finney said to have a revival, and this little voice in the back of my mind saying, 'That's a bit far don't you think?'

I thought about this the other day. Instead of reading through a portion of Scripture that has a command, and saying, "I believe that," we should rather ask ourselves the question of, "Have I done that?" Or even more pointed, "Have I done that today?"

There is a road to revival, but many aren't getting on. It is too much work, too much devotion, and too demanding.

I know that while my prayer life has increased over the last year, my evangelism to strangers has really taken a nose dive. When I look at what I do through the course of a day, it is obvious why I am not seeing revival heading my way.

But I am hungry, and I think God will grant me repentance. It seems that revival will come when I, and you, stop waiting for everyone else to pull their weight to meet the conditions for revival, and start being obediant.

I would say that studying revivals past won't help us until we start doing what they did to receive it. Namely humility, prayer, seeking Him, and repenting. The knowledge just puffs us up. We really could have revival if we only obeyed one verse, but we want to know everything about what we are getting into (like buying a house).

I wouldn't mind being embarrassed by someone less knowledgeable than me who just simply obeyed God's Word, and ushered in a revival.

Like L E Maxwell said, until we stop blaming the blockage of God's blessing on everything and everyone else, and realize we are the hindrance to revival, we won't see one.


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Hal Bachman

 2006/7/21 16:50Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re:

Compton's

Quote:
Spending a little time with Jonathan Edwards, or the Puritans reveals that today's concept of loving God is a much more sentimental affair, as compared to the way of holiness it once was preached as.


This touches a spot in my thinking. Why do we have so many new choruses and hymns which describe Christ as being 'beautiful'?“For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.”
(Is 53:2-3 KJVS)


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Ron Bailey

 2006/7/27 4:41Profile









 Re: Is knowledge of revival choking us?


Hi philologos,

Earlier in the year this thread called 'Jesus as LOVER' may offer an answer to

Quote:
Why do we have so many new choruses and hymns which describe Christ as being 'beautiful'?

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10097&forum=35]http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10097&forum=35[/url]

 2006/7/27 5:06
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

JFEdgar wrote:
I have to answer the subject of this thread with a resounding YES!

If we are not living out what we learn through real Faith in it, knowledge will only kill.



I get increasingly tired of hearing theoretical trivia that is packaged as "sound doctrine", or at least "good advice". I remember hearing David Pawson mention that "Logos" in John 1:1 would be better translate as "Reason" than "Word". We can see traces of the English word "Logic" in this Greek word.

Considering that "Logic" is also concealed in "TheoLOGIC", we can also conclude that this word describes the "Rationale of God". I'm reminded also of that Psalmists' words "Thou hast made know Thy acts unto Israel, Thy ways unto Moses". [b]It is not enough to be able to describe what God has done, or even understand His principles. We must have His "ways" become a part of us. This is knowledge.[/b]

I heard a man today speak of how he is of a more "analytical" bent (some may say "melancholic"). He had and intimate comprehension of the workings of the "crucified life" but had made the mistake of equating this undstanding with it being a reality in his life. Being melancholic myself, this struck a chord in my hear, because I found the same thing in my life also. It was only after He had "holden me by my right hand" and led me through a crushing series of crises, that the crack began to be openned in the door, and my personal testimony echoed Paul's in Gal 2:20.

To quote Leonard Ravenhill, "The world isn't waiting for a new DEFINITION of Christianity. The world is waiting for a ne DEMONSTRATION of Christianity." Perhaps we can adapt this slightly, "The CHURCH isn't waiting for a new DEFINITION of REVIVAL. The CHURCH is waiting for a new DEMONSTRATION of REVIVAL." Let's stop splitting hairs over what it is, and what it isn't. Let's use our "common sence" (ie, Logic) and neither limit it's scope, nor romanticise it's effects.

The more I think of "Revival" in the West lately, the more I think that it will coincide with "Revolution". I don't know if you all have read Marx or not? If not trust me, it would not be pretty. The more I think about Revival in the West, themore I ponder Ravenhill's word's "Some think it will be 'Revival' OR 'Concentration Camps'. I think it will be 'Revival' AND 'Concetration Camps'."

I've heard some say, "What Australia needs is 'Persecution'." I challenge anyone to still feel that way after listening to Richard Wurmbrand's testimony. This week I heard a man recount the tale of how, as a nine year old, he had to watch his cousin choke to death over 30 minutes as he was hanged, in a Nazi concentration camp, as punishment for assisting in helping hide Jews. I don't know if that made sence, but it was the "nine year old" who was being punished by watching his cousin's execution.

We need to put some things into perspective, and count the cost from that view. What is revival? Simple, a return to "True Cristianity". What is "True Christianity"? Simple, to love the Lord. What is it to "Love the Lord"? Simple, keep His commandments. What's His commandments? Well, I'll give you a clue, it starts with repentance, goes on to faith, and the rest kinda sorts its self out.

Let's stop arguing about revival, and "WAKE UP!!!" already.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/7/27 7:39Profile





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