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Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida


So true, Krispy. As you said, communication is the key to any relationship-horizontal or vertical.

The three days of required counselling before marriage [Fla] is not sufficient in many cases as it only scratches the outside of many issues that need to be delved into deeply to ensure firm lines of communication exist.

bill schnippert

 2006/7/19 8:11Profile

 Re: About sex

KrispyKrittr said:

tho some try and lump it under sodomy

I think you'll find that this is a [u]legal[/u] definition, and consent between participating adults doesn't make it 'right' in God's eyes.

Sodomy for one, and it should be obvious to everyone why. If for no other reason... it simply isnt healthy.

It isn't healthy for more than one reason, the transmission of diseases being only [i]one[/i] contra reason. The alimentary tract, which stretches from the mouth to the anus, was not designed for penetration by the male genital organ. And the female genital tract was not designed for penetration by anything other.

I believe God made man and woman in His own image, and love-making has very specific boundaries, which reflect God's holiness and purity. Also, we have to remember Christ as the Bridegroom when asking some of these questions - and then ask ourselves if the answers are not obvious?

 2006/7/19 8:19


One thing I don't want to do is get into a prolonged discussion about this. However, abortion is legal in this country, and as such I do not put much stock in man's laws... those who make them... and what their definitions are, legal or otherwise. We are commanded to pray for our leaders and respect them, but we're not commanded to trust them or go along with them when they assume to usurp God's Law's.

Also, in regards to the second part of your post, there are no known physical health risks associated with oral sex between a husband and wife who practice good hygeine and do not have any diseases. Thats a fact.

Now, as to whether a Christian married couple can practice it... again, I say it is completely between them and God.


 2006/7/19 8:43

 Re: About sex


It's not just about physical health. It's about spiritual, psychological and emotional health, and a clear conscience before God, who represents HIMSELF in the human union, as HE designed it to be.

 2006/7/19 11:16


It's not just about physical health. It's about spiritual, psychological and emotional health, and a clear conscience before God, who represents HIMSELF in the human union, as HE designed it to be.

I agree... but you must understand that some people can do exactly that... even if some can not.

Some people cant partake of any alcohol at all and stand before God with a clear conscience, and some people can. Paul covered all this when he talked about eating certain kinds of meat.

It also has to do with Christian liberty.


 2006/7/19 12:47

Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: About sex

Dear Christian,

I wish I could answer your question forth right, providing all the "cans" and "cannots." I also wish I could provide you with a definitive answer, but alas I have a myriad of questions about sex just as you.

I am a person who lived in the world for a great many years before coming to Christ, during a time when I indulged in all sorts of sexual pleasures. Upon coming to Christ, I thought sex would be even greater. For me, it was a spiritual experience, and I was under the assumption that if we held to God's law of saving sex for marriage, He would surely bless us. Such was not the case.

I have been sadly disappointed by the inadequacies of the flesh. After I was born again, I waited until marriage to have sex. When that night finally came, I had high hopes and expectations, especially since this woman was the one chosen for my by God. However, that night was a huge disappointment.

I have read several books on Christianity and sex, and some state that sex is spiritual. Alas, my experience is not so. Sex is truly a thing of the flesh. In Matthew 22:30, Jesus is quoted as saying, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." If we will not be married in the resurrection, then will we have sex? Obviously not, for God said that we should not have sex outside of marriage. And so, if we will not be having sex in the resurrection, then how could sex possibly be spiritual? If it were, would we not be actively having sex in our new spiritual bodies?

Sex is not spiritual. Sex is of the flesh.

With that said, it must be understood that it is a need of the flesh just like eating or breathing is a need of the flesh. It is something the flesh needs satisfied. For sex, this need is activated by its first experience. Which is why fornication is such terrible against the body, for if we have sex just once, then we need it. Without a spouse, how should that need ever be met?

Paul understood this need. That is why he said we should not deny our spouse sex. If we are poor sexually, we will begin to hunger, and this may lead us to sin.

This is not to say or suggest that sex is evil or wicked. The flesh is not evil or wicked. However, if we give ourselves over to the flesh, allowing the body to become our Lord, then we are falling into sin. Sex can become a tool used for sin even in marriage.

With that said, consider the scriptures where Paul speaks about the body. I will not list them all, for it would lead to a long post. One that comes to mind is in 1 Cor 6, where Paul speaks about the body being a temple unto the Lord. It is a place of worship. Also, I reminded of the discussion Paul gave concerning vegetarianism where He said explained that we should respect the consciousness of other believers. (Romans 14)

Truly, I believe you should pray over the matter, and lay it the feet of Christ as an offering. I would say, "I will do as you tell me my Lord." And then, do just that.

This leads me to the next thing that has come to mind. You said, "but where is the line to be drawn?"

This, I believe is a dangerous thought. My words might come on strong, but it is in love. I have some things for you to consider. Please know, they are meant to help.

Christ died to set us free from sin. While we are sinners, we live under the law. Our thinking is as this...."What can I get away with? What are my limits?" Truly, the sinner wants to know every extent of the law, so they know exactly what they can or cannot do. Why?

It is the condition of the heart. A heart filled with sin wants to sin. The desire of the heart is toward sin. The heart wants to commit fornication or adultery. However, the person knows that if they do sin, they will face punishment. And so, the person wants to know all the limitations. They want to know exactly how many beers they can drink so that they can drink to the limit. You will also find that such people treat the bible as a book of law saying, "The bible says we can do this but not that." They obey the bible as a book of law.

A heart filled with Christ is free from the law. A heart filled with Christ wants to offer everything to Christ. Such a heart is filled with love. Love seeks to give freely without being commanded. If you love Jesus, you will naturally follow His commands. As such, a heart filled with Christ does not ask "what are my limitations?" Rather, a heart filled with Christ says, "Yes Lord. I will do anything for you." It seeks after Christ. It treasures Christ. It says, "I love you Lord, and I will do whatever you say, even if it means I might suffer."

When a person lives under Christ, they do not worry about limitations. There are no limitations. There are no laws. There is only a desire to serve Christ and give everything to Jesus. And when this happens, Christ comes and dwells in that person. They then uphold the law naturally, without trying to obey. Christ lives in them, and Christ controls them.

When Christ is in control, a person does not ask, "What can I do and what can I not do?" Rather, that person is controlled by Christ. They just do fully knowing Christ is in control. Their inward nature has changed. They don't have a desire to sin (although they may on occasion.)

When we live by "what can I do and cannot do", then we are living by laws. If God wanted us to obey laws, then He would have outlined everything in the bible down to the last lettter. We would know exactly how many ounzes of wine is too much, and whether or not gambling is a sin. However, we live in Christ. In order to live in Christ, we continually give ourselves to Him. We take up our cross daily and sacrifice everything to Christ, so that Christ may control us. We may fall into sin, but this is a moment where we turn to Christ. We learn and grow.

In order to live such a life where we are completely controlled by Christ, we must live a life of continual prayer. This means praying 24/7. Now, you might say, "If I do that, then I will never do anything else." Indeed, there are specific moments when we block out the world around only to share in communion with the Lord. However, praying 24/7 involves acknowledging the Lord in everything we do.

Where ever you are or whatever you do, acknowledge the presence of the Lord. If a person is born again, Christ is always there, whether you acknowledge him or not. However, when you acknowledge Him in every area of your life, you are giving Him worship. You are giving yourself to Him. When you give yourself to Christ, He can work in you.

John 15:4 (NAS)
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me."

And so, in regards to this sex is truly between you, your spouse, and the Lord.

I hope this helps,

In love,

Blake Kidney

 2006/7/19 14:08Profile

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


Brothers and Sisters,

At the risk of drawing heat on myself, I really don't think this topic is suitable for an open forum. Not that sex isn't important in the life of a Christian, or that Satan can not infiltrate this realm; it's just that I believe it's unwise to discuss various forms of sex (oral or otherwise) in here. If Christian is having issues in this area, he and his wife need to privately consult a pastor or an individual he specifically trusts and who is wise in the Lord (or PM someone he can confide in).

Paul did not go into detail about sex between married couples in his epistles. He only said that the bed is undefiled. Maybe I'm wrong, but if Jesse Morrell cannot mention "bikini" without drawing controversy, I don't think I should see references to "oral sex" and sodomy on here either (in this specific context). It immediately conjures up images I would rather not engage in.

Also, I think it's foolish for Christian brothers to discuss this stuff with Christian females. This should be done in private, male to male - female to female. I understand that this topic is VERY important in the Body, and there have been some excellent series done on it. "Marriage on the Rock" is one of them. I just think this setting is unwise as it can foster temptation in the minds of some of us.

I undertand this will be met with strong disagreement. But I am also a voice in the Body, and I believe I have the mind of Christ on this.

God bless you all!

Brother Paul

Paul Frederick West

 2006/7/19 15:35Profile

Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Who is driving the car

Hi all,

having wrestled with this a bit, I found some light in this passage of scripture:It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 1 Thess 4:3-6 NIV
The KJV adds a bit more light as to what he was talking about.For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:6That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. My reading of this has been that sure passion is great in marriage but there is a line that needs to be drawn as to what drives you to do what you do.

I have concluded that Paul was saying is that the 'vessel' that he was talking about is a wife.
The line 'lust of concupisence' from the concordances paints a picture of being driven by a desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust. So in my personal experience a have applied this scripture as a litmus test in my relationship with my wife.

There are other questions that can be raised, like why would what you do be a stumbling block, because how would they know anyway:eek:, but anywho, this has helped me 'draw the line' 8-)

Zeke Oosthuis

 2006/7/19 15:59Profile

Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772

 In total agreement with Paul

It is a very slippery subject, and in a forum of both males and females, can be damaging.


 2006/7/19 16:23Profile

Joined: 2003/9/10
Posts: 82

 Re: Jesus Loves Purity

Must say this-

The above mentioned acts originate in homsexuality and are unclean, impure and damning. Period. Anyone involved in this stuff should repent and seek God for a clean heart, then set back and watch as the spirit of lust and confusion go out of your life. A person will never ever know real peace with this type of activity in their life.

Ephesians 5:3-12

Noel Pautsky

 2006/7/20 0:52Profile

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