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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

John 16:8-16 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

How do we believe? It is the Holy Spirit by whom we believe. He is sent direct from the Father to give us the ability to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. For those that believe that Jesus is come in flesh, this is the promise: A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Is He come? Yes, He does it all, He tells the Holy Spirit to say to us that we might believe, well knowing that the believers will hear. We don't believe first, we hear the the Holy Spirit conviction first and that conviction is: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and we need a Savior. Then we believe. Abraham believed God the same way except Jesus had not come yet. The Holy Spirit was not convicting soul's that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Abraham could not believe the way we do. Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him as righteousness. Jesus Christ has been made righteousness in us because the Holy Spirit has given us what Jesus says and we will hear.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Not in imputed righteousness.

And: Acts 28:27-28 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

These are imputed righteousness Abraham's children.

:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

These are made righteous son's of God by the Christ born again in them.


John 16:27-31 For the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

This is that that is in John 16, Jhn 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. How do we see Him? We see Him is each other ant ourselves, by His birthing in us.

This is what the Holy Spirit is come for that Jesus Christ is come in flesh. He is come in our flesh, this temple of the Holy Spirit is where the Spirit of Christ dwells, by the birthing of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
What a mystery revealed not to Israel, but to the son's of God.

Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Who's faith do we believe by? The faith of Jesus Christ in whom we now live, by whom we were crucified to the Law and sin and now live our lives in Him by Him and through Him. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Hbr 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation...?

We can't, because it by Him not us, Praise God.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

In Christ: Phillip




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Phillip

 2006/7/22 2:56Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

I think one of the first things that a person needs to learn is that God is smarter than you. It seems as if in this day and age that people think that their methods are wittier than the one who gave them a brain. This is especially so in evangelism. There are so many “methods” that are foreign to the Bible. Yet, the most prominent method, which is preaching, is forgotten. He is Lord. When He calls, we must obey. It doesn’t matter what we may think is wise; His wisdom is much higher than ours. Abraham didn’t know where he was going. But one thing was for sure, he was being “called out.” Salvation is being called out. We are chosen (called out) by God. God has called us out of the world of sin, and into the holiness of the heavenlies.

Again we see the substance of faith- reaction i.e. obedience. It seems so many times in the Christian life that our obedience is leading us into “not knowing whither he went.” I think it would do us some good to sit down and think about the last thing God convicted you to do. Did you do it? Think about how that obedience/disobedience affected that day and the days following. Everything the Lord does seems to be a building us farther into the “unknown.” In reality, it isn’t unknown to us, but only to the world.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 [u]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.[/u]

Amazing! It was written, but now it is revealed. We still see through a glass darkly, but verses like these should put us in awe and great humility.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

It may honestly seem that our obedience is going nowhere, but without any doubting it brings much glory to God, and has a definite purpose. I have found out in certain things the Lord has had me do that I didn’t understand, it wasn’t long before I seen it’s purpose.

Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/7/24 23:02Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

This is truth not folly, please read it all.

Luk 17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Abraham had imputed faith because he believed God. We have Christ because we believed God about His Son. Even if I had the faith of a mustard seed, I could only do earthly things and heavenly things would have to be imputed to me, not made in me by Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:28-31 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Our faith is "not," but by Grace through Faith which no flesh can glory, in the presence of God. Let us glory in the Faith of Jesus Christ which has been birthed in us by Grace Through Faith. Who's Faith? Certainly not my worldly mustard seed faith, which we don't even have that, because I cannot move mountains or trees or even a small sand pile or even a grain of sand by my faith. I can come to the Faith of Jesus Christ made in me, the same Christ God has made to be wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. I praise God He has given me the Faith of Jesus Christ and not the Imputed Faith of Abraham. This Faith and this Grace are not mine but His who has birthed His Son in me.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I am not justified by the works of Abraham believing God and carrying out His demands. "But by the Faith of Jesus Christ," I am justified by Jesus Christ who is made unto me "justification". Not my doing anything by my faith or works to be who I am, but by doing works because of who I am in Christ because I Love Him with His own Love that is birthed in me.

I could never love God without the Love of Christ being in me and that Love being who I am in Christ loving the Father with the Love of Christ. Paul speaks of this always.

2 Corinthians 13:3-5 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. For though He was crucified through weakness, yet He liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Our strength is giving up our faith our righteousness our wisdom our sanctification and redemption and living in the power of Christ Jesus and His Faith and His all. "When I am weak then I am Strong. We are dead to all we are that is not in Christ we died on the Cross with Him and we must see all that we were, dead to sin, the sin of our old faith, the sin of our own old righteousness, the sin of our own lying justification before God, the sin of our working to sanctify ourselves to present ourselves to God in our own glory. We are dead to all this sin of the flesh of man. Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is the Glory of Christ we should glory in and in His Faith.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

This is even our faith and our own glory which is in Christ. Ephesians 2:6-9 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Neither Grace or Faith of ourselves, It is the Gift of God. Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/25 3:40Profile
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 Re:

Christinyou said,

Quote:
Abraham had imputed faith because he believed God. We have Christ because we believed God about His Son.

And,
Quote:
I praise God He has given me the Faith of Jesus Christ and not the Imputed Faith of Abraham. This Faith and this Grace are not mine but His who has birthed His Son in me.

It is highly commendable to guard against the corrupting of the Gospel by legalism (being saved by our works). But it is also highly dangerous to over-react to legalism and go too far to the extreme in the other direction - which leads to libertinism (turning the grace of God into licentiousness and denying clear biblical instructions and teachings on true faith). Both of these errors are addressed in the Bible.

The statement that Abraham had imputed faith because he "believed God" and that we have Christ because we "believed God" about His Son are actually identical statements and not an argument to prove that we don't have the faith of Abraham. The whole point of the Apostle Paul's argument about true saving faith is that it will look just like the faith of Abraham. "For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendents, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those [i]who are of the faith of Abraham[/i], who is the father of us all" (Romans 4:16 NASB). We don't have Abraham's faith - we have the same kind of faith that Abraham had. God has chosen that the only faith that He accepts as saving faith is the same kind of faith that Abraham had - which by the way is the same kind that all of the Old Testament saints and all New Testament saints had and have.

Abraham had imputed faith - that means that he didn't work for it but that it was given to him - and so do we - "Therefore it was also [i]credited[/i] to him as righteousness. Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, [i][b]but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited[/b][/i], as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. The clear teaching of the Bible is that Abraham's believing God and carrying out His demands wasn't works, it was saving faith - and it happened 400 years before the Law was given.

Notice that Abraham's faith - believing God - was first mentioned in Genesis 15:5-6. Abraham was counted righteous when he believed God's promise regarding the Seed. It is not mere faith that saves but [i]faith in Christ[/i]. The promise of the Seed had been given to Adam and Eve and believed by Abel (as illustrated in his sacrifice) and believed by the godly line listed in Genesis 5. Jesus was even able to say of Abraham, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad" (John 8:56).

True faith results in obedience - just like Abraham's did and all the other people of faith listed in Hebrews 11. This is not in contradiction to the Bible - the book of James especially deals with the obedience of faith. But so does the apostle Paul - "Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the [i]obedience of faith[/i] among all the Gentiles for His name's sake" (Romans 1:5).

Somehow we tend to think that the Holy Spirit wasn't doing His work of regeneration until after Pentecost. As an illustration that He was doing His work of regeneration, Jesus told Nicodemus - "You must be born again." And also the thief on the cross that repented and was saved actually lined up with what the apostle Paul wrote in Romans 10 years after the crucifixion. In Luke 23:42 that thief said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom." Paul said, "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord" (Romans 10:9) - "[i][b]Jesus[/b][/i], remember me when you come [i]in Your kingdom[/i] - he confessed Jesus as Lord - as King (not I but Christ). Paul said, "And believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9) - "Jesus, remember me [i]when You come[/i] in Your kingdom" - He believed that God would raise Jesus from the dead because Jesus was dying on the cross next to him. Paul said, "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:13) - "[i]Jesus, remember me[/i]when you come in Your kingdom" - he called on the name of the Lord. How did he know to do that? It was because of the regenerating ministry of the Holy Spirit - even before Pentecost.

Let us not deny biblical truth in order to preserve biblical truth - the Bible does not contradict itself - those who are saved "are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all" (Romans 4:16).

Grace and peace,
Olan


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Olan Strickland

 2006/7/25 10:37Profile
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 Re:

PreachParsly wrote:

Quote:
I think one of the first things that a person needs to learn is that God is smarter than you. It seems as if in this day and age that people think that their methods are wittier than the one who gave them a brain. This is especially so in evangelism. There are so many “methods” that are foreign to the Bible. Yet, the most prominent method, which is preaching, is forgotten. He is Lord. When He calls, we must obey. It doesn’t matter what we may think is wise; His wisdom is much higher than ours.



You are definitely on the right track. Many fail to see that true faith is "trusting the Lord with all our hearts and leaning not on our own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5). Methods do matter or else I can lean on my own understanding and God will accept that - but He doesn't. His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. Even the Lord Jesus Christ didn't "strategize" or come up with methods of how He was going to accomplish God's will - that's God's business.

Here is a brief article on this subject.
http://www.devcobaptist.org/templates/cla19bl/details.asp?id=31831&PID=369577

Grace and peace
Olan


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Olan Strickland

 2006/7/25 10:47Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Olan, Thank you for the post.

I am in closer agreement with your statements, than most. Question: Do we live by the Faith of the Son of God? Gal 2: 16&20 If so where did it come from?

I see this as God making The Faith of Jesus Christ by His birthing in us as being the Faith which God wants us to live our lives on this earth being already seated in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus.

I see Abraham's faith as the same faith that all men are given. Romans 12:2-6 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Is this not the measure faith in Christ Jesus, as it pleases God? It sounds like the faith is by grace given to us, that faith is in proportion to the Grace of God. This being us, one Body in Christ and having different gifts that take different measures of faith, that it is the Faith of Jesus Christ that we are dealing with not the faith of man. Christ is the one with the Gifts, The Holy Spirit uses them to build up the body of Christ as the Holy Spirit pleases.

If it takes the Spirit of Christ, as you say, at Pentecost go give us rebirth, then is it not a given that the faith we now live by is different, as the measure of each gift is different. Only God can give greater or less faith. Thus, "The life I now live, I live by the Faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me."

That is why I showed the imputed faith of Abraham that brings imputed righteousness. The Faith to believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God must come from the Holy Spirit in convicting of sin and showing the need for a Savior. For only God can reveal this from Heaven as to Peter, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That is why I am trying to get to the understanding of faith, the faith of man and the Faith of God given to the Born Again by the Christ that is birthed in us. God knowing that imputed righteousness was not good enough to get Abraham into heavenly places. Then making Jesus Christ our righteousness by His birthing in us being made righteous by Jesus Christ and knowing it by the measure of Faith given by God to every man, that we might accomplish the works of Christ on this earth. 1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world. I know this is not the condemnation that the church is used to but I believe it is the power of God to the Church, the Body of Christ for us to do the works of Christ in this world. Who has blinded our eyes?

Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth Him all things that Himself doeth: and he will shew Him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall He do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

That He might come back in the birthed son's of God by the Grace and Faith of God in Christ Jesus.

I will keep reading your post and ask for truth in reconciling the two positions we have. Thanks for the Post.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

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 Re:

Phillip,

I hope to clarify what I mean and also understand what you mean. I'll attempt to respond systematically according to your last post here.

First, we do live by the faith of the Son of God and by faith in the Son of God. Let me try to explain. Faith in the Son of God means that I trust Him. I believe that the facts about the Son of God as revealed in the Bible are true of Him - His deity, His sinless life, His death, burial and resurrection - and that translates from head knowledge to heart knowledge to the point that I trust the [b]Person[/b] concerning whom these facts are presented. I don't have faith in the facts (fundamentals), I have faith in the Person about whom the facts are true. So my faith is [i]in the Son of God[/i] and not [i]about the Son of God[/i]. The phrase "[i]faith of Jesus Christ[/i]" is an objective genitive, corresponding to another construction in Greek which is translated [i]in Jesus Christ[/i] (Kenneth Wuest, [i]Word Studies in the Greek New Testament[/i], Vol. I. [i]Galatians in the Greek New Testament[/i]. Pg 77). So literally there the Bible is speaking of faith in the Son not the faith of the Son.

But we also live by the faith of the Son of God who is the Author and Perfector of our faith. Jesus lived His life completely by faith and not in His own power. He didn't utilize His deity but trusted the Father with all His heart and leaned not on His own understanding. Hence, "Who although He existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped (utilized)" (Philippians 2:6). Jesus' faith was perfect faith that resulted in perfect obedience - trusting the Lord with all His heart and leaning not on His own understanding. We now are to live that same kind of life of faith - trusting the Lord with all our hearts and leaning not on our own understandings. And the only way that we can do that is to live the crucified life so that Christ can live His life through us - "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me" (Galatians 2:20). The crucified life - the Christian life - is "it is no longer I who live but Christ" and therefore it is faith in the Son of God and the faith of the Son of God.

Let me illustrate: Let's say that God has told Adam and Eve that they can eat from any tree of the garden except for one and if they eat of that one tree - that act of disobedience will bring about death. So the devil comes along and tempts Eve and she takes of its fruit and eats. And then she stretches out her hand to Adam and says to him, "Here, take some and eat, it tastes so good!" But Adam responds to Eve, "I cannot do that. I cannot sin against my heavenly Father. I love Him and want to walk with Him and it is my delight to do His will." So they hear the sound of the Lord God as He came walking into the garden in the cool of the day. And Adam goes to meet God and he says, "Father, my bride has sinned. She has eaten of the tree of which you commanded us not to eat. If you will let me I will pay her price and die in her place." So God nailed Adam to a tree as Eve watched and she saw Adam pay the agonizing price of her disobedience. She saw Adam die! Her heart was broken because she knew that it was her disobedience that cost Adam his life and that it was Adam's love for her that caused him to become her sacrifice. Then, something marvelous happened - God looked down on Adam and said, "Arise my love! You did nothing wrong. Because of your innocence and because of your faithfulness - "Come forth!" And Adam stood back up on his feet.

How would Eve react? She would have been moved to brokenness and repentance by the goodness of Adam.
How would Eve react? She would have said to Adam, "Oh Adam, please forgive me of my wickedness which cost you your life."
How would Eve react? She would have told Adam, "I don't want to direct my life any longer - I want you to direct my life. You have the wisdom and the love and the obedience that I need."
How would Eve react? She would live her life by faith in Adam and by the faith of Adam.

The first Adam didn't do that for his bride - the second Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ - did!

In the illustration, how did Eve get her faith? Was it by works? No. It was imputed. God who allowed Adam to become the sacrifice imputed Adam's obedience to Eve so that Eve didn't have to pay the price for disobedience because Adam payed that price even though he had never been disobedient.

In the illustration, how did Eve get her repentance? Was it by works? No. It was the contrast of her badness compared to Adam's goodness that broke her heart. It too was a gift and it came from beholding the glory of Adam.

I'll respond a little more later but for now I have to go.

Grace and peace
Olan


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Olan Strickland

 2006/7/25 17:20Profile
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 Re:

That is a good story about Adam and Eve. If the Adam was the 2nd Adam hanging on the Cross that Eve was seeing and realized that God would have to Give His only Begotten Son to die for Her I agree with the story.

The difference is the first Adam could not have died for the sin of Eve. If so then Adam 1 would have to be birthed by God not created. Since the story did not happen that way, I don't see where the faith of the Son of God comes into play. The Faith of the Son of God gives us faith in the Son of God.

God's plan from the beginning was to put Christ in the creation so the son's of God would be of a Godly nature. Ephesians 1:4-5 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Now since Adam, a created being chose to believe the liar form the beginning, Adam a created being believing another created being, Satan, Adam took on himself and all his offspring the nature of a created being, not a fully Omniscient God who always and Is and will always be, God. A son of God must be birthed by God to allow God to become a Father. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. So the created Adam could not have been a son of God unless he first partook of the Tree of Life, then he would have become a son of God by the nature of Christ in him. That is why Jesus said, "You are of your father the devil. Satan became the father of all mankind because Adam chose to believe him instead of God. One tree to the father of all lies, the other tree to life eternal The Father of man in Christ Jesus.

This brings our faith under the rule of Satan and that is why it must be exchanged and become the Faith of Jesus Christ. When we are Born Again the old man is dead, crucified on the Cross with Christ. The old man is a son of their father the devil. The new man becomes a son of God by believing God about Jesus Christ and partaking of the Tree of Life. The old father Satan out and now by the life of Christ Jesus being born again in the believer God the Father and are not son's of God, with the Faith of the Son of God giving us this new faith in the Son of God. Who are we to think that we have faith, it is either the faith of our father the devil or it is the Faith of God in Christ Jesus. It is Faith that gives us our nature, for as a man thinks so is he. Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so [is] he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart [is] not with thee. Faith is the substance of things not seen. The substance of the old man is Satan's faith, The substance of the new creature, born again is God's Faith through Jesus Christ becomes our Faith in Christ.

We are now new creatures in Christ Jesus, a Godly creature seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, being exactly where God the Father wants His son's to be, in His House that Jesus Christ is preparing for us, if it were not so He have told us so. In the resurrection of the body of Christ and those that are left alive and on this earth at that time we will meet them in the air and we will be complete, The Life of Christ, The Mind of Christ, and the Body like Christ, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wonderful individual souls of God then the son's that God chose us in Him before the foundation of the World.

I love your posts, they really make me ask for more of the truth. It is close and we will always be seeking it and the Holy Spirit will always be giving it.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/25 23:43Profile
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 Re:

You're right! The story of Adam and Eve was only an illustration - but one that would clarify exactly what Jesus Christ the second Adam did do for His bride, the Church. And in the illustration we see that [i]faith[/i] is not of ourselves and we see that righteousness is imputed (credited) by God.

In substitutionary atonement the sacrifice (substitute) has to be sinless (lived an unblemished life of faith and obedience) in order for God to impute the righteousness (sinlessness) of the sacrifice to the account of the sinner. That is what the illustration of Adam and Eve would show - only a sinless Adam dying in the place of a sinning Eve could save her from the wrath of God because it is the only way that God can declare a sinner to be righteous and God not become a liar. Legally and justly, God can take the righteous account of a sinless Adam and [i]credit[/i] it to the unrighteous account of a sinning Eve. The sinless Adam takes the unrighteous account and pays its price - "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

So salvation is never by any of our works but totally by His works. Then this message is preached (the Gospel) and God supernaturally imparts faith so that He can impute righteousness. "So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17).

So our salvation begins by our justification - being declared [i]legally righteous[/i] by God imputing the righteousness of Christ to our account because the word of God has birthed faith and we now believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Our salvation continues in our sanctification - being made [i]actually righteous[/i] here and now through the indwelling Holy Spirit and our obedience to the commands of the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself up for us. This is the obedience of faith that the Bible is talking about and it is this obedience that proves the faith to be from God and not from the devil. "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:3-4).

Our salvation is completed in our glorification - being made [i]literally righteous[/i] when Jesus Christ comes back and transforms the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself (Philippians 3:21).

"Oh, the depth of the riches of both the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."

Grace and peace
Olan


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Olan Strickland

 2006/7/26 10:13Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Amen, we do agree. This truly is the fulfillment of the Word of God, that is another Person being born again in us, and new creatures in Christ Jesus, and Him in us.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/26 14:07Profile





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