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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

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 Re:

Quote:
I see so many people write replies that are so deep that they never truely address the subject at hand.


Actually I believe this type of conversation sharing the scriptures is very valid. God has given us minds to think and understand his scriptures and rightly divide them. Yes it is crucial to know the time you have gone from light to darkeness, from death to life. How could one not know when they have been born again? I am very appreciative of the verses from the bible that have been shared thus far. The scriptures are our plumbline let us never forsake them for anything else.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/7/10 3:13Profile
WorldView
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Joined: 2006/7/10
Posts: 94
Davao, Philippines

 Re:

I'm not saying that discussing the things of God and supporting them by scripture is unvalid, but that we often complicate the simple things, and confuse the unsaved around us in the process.

However, I choose to join in on the discussion, even though it appears to have settled down a bit.

My opinion on the subjuct is this:

Salvation comes from calling and believing upon the name of the Lord.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

I believe that by this we receive eternal life. However as several people have stated, this now leads to a process. It is the process of laying aside the old self, putting on the new self, being renewed in the spirit of our mind and dying daily to this carnal world. Paul described this process as being a "living sacrifice". He also referrs to this process in Philippians 3:12 as he says, "Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus."

Can a person think that they are saved and not really be saved? I think so.

I'd also like to point out that a person does not need to get rid of all of their sins before they come to Christ. Most Christians are deceived in thinking that the transformation must come before the conversion, when it actually comes as a result of it. The only prerequisit to receiving Christ into one's heart is to be a sinner.

But here is a quesion that I desire to hear some repsonses to, where does repentance come in? Does salvation come only after true repentance? Now remember, repentace is a complete turning away from. So let's say someone gets saved, received Jesus into their heart, truely loves the Lord but does not quit the sin that they are bound to, are they saved?


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Keith

 2006/7/10 4:56Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
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 Re:

Quote:

WorldView wrote:
I'm not saying that discussing the things of God and supporting them by scripture is unvalid, but that we often complicate the simple things, and confuse the unsaved around us in the process.



Anyone who regularly reaches out to the lost would know that sinners don't need any help to get confused, they're confused [b]my nature[/b]. After all, they can't make up their mind whether the Cross is "foolish" or "offensive". After all, if it is "foolish", then how could it possibly offend someone? And if it's "offensive", then obviously they can make sence of it, which would mean that it isn't "foolish".

Try witnessing to somone. One minute their telling you that they don't believe in God, and the next they object to this imaginary God casting them into hell. On minute they're telling you that they don't believe in the Ten Commandments, the next they agree that Liars, Adulterers, and theives, are bad people.

You are right, the things of God are [b]simple[/b], and don't need [b]complicating[/b]. The problem is, the various alternatives [b]are extremely complex[/b], and therefore can only be exposed for what they are by [b]silencing every arguement[/b] that they present.

This is kind of "off topic", but the issue has been raised. Bear in mind that most people who come here are Christian (or at least think they are ;-)). In the years that I've been here, I've seen many come and go, and yet there is a kind of unity that exists in our [b]minor disagreements[/b], that is virtually non-existant in most fellowships.

Perhaps this is part of the [b]process[/b] that our [b]crisis[/b] should lead into?

Hmmmmm.....


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/7/10 6:51Profile
WorldView
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Joined: 2006/7/10
Posts: 94
Davao, Philippines

 Re:

"Anyone who regularly reaches out to the lost would know that sinners don't need any help to get confused, they're confused [b]my nature[/b]. After all, they can't make up their mind whether the Cross is "foolish" or "offensive". After all, if it is "foolish", then how could it possibly offend someone? And if it's "offensive", then obviously they can make sence of it, which would mean that it isn't "foolish". "

I dont take offense but in that statent you imply that I am not one who regularly reaches out to the lost, which is not the case. But when we witness to the lost let us not replace the worldly confusion with religious doctrinal confusion.

Yes, most people who are lost are confused, and I am most certainly for sound argument concerning the scriptures, but in our argument she should not complicate the simple things which, I find many churches and religions do, which as I said, turns people off to christianity. I have seen it with my own eyes.



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Keith

 2006/7/10 10:01Profile
IWantAnguish
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Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Galatians 5:24

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

==================

If you find yourself coming back week after week and confessing the same sins to God, you're not a Christian. If you are a true born-again believer, it requires you first to DIE to self, and DIE to sin with JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS.

Many many many people believe that we can just come into the presence of Jesus as we are as sinners, but Jesus says no, Repent, and only then you shall escape the fires of Hell.

To actually be crucified with Christ is the only hope of salvation. The initial step is Gethsamane, or 'The Crushing Stone.' This is where God lowers the stone on our lives, and we submit everything to God. Sports, Friends, Beer, Sexual lusts / desires, Idle talking, dreams for future promotion, everything must be crushed.

Only then can we live as children of the Most High. Only then can we live in victory. Only then can sinners look at Christians and be inspired. Only then will the church of Jesus Christ rise up and pull down the devils strongholds through spiritual warfare.

Still searching...
Sam

p.s. I'm currently in the process of transferring to Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Please pray for me...


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Sam Yoon

 2006/7/10 12:42Profile
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Joined: 2004/3/31
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 Re:

Quote:

WorldView wrote:
I dont take offense but in that statent you imply that I am not one who regularly reaches out to the lost, which is not the case.



No implication intended. Simply my observations as one who "regularly reaches out to the lost". Sorry if it sounded bad, and after rereading my post, I see how you came to your conclusion. My apologies.:cry:

Quote:
But when we witness to the lost let us not replace the worldly confusion with religious doctrinal confusion.



This I tink is the key, and the hardest to avoid. For myself in this thread, I simply tried to reiterate that we are [b]saved[/b] by a [b]crisis[/b], in order to be [b]saved[/b] by a [b]process[/b], in order to be [b]saved[/b] from the ultimate [b]crisis[/b] of the [b]Judegement Seat[/b]. You've got to admit, this appears complex from the outside, but for those who cling to Christ, it's the simplest thing in the world.

On top of that, it took a while for me to realise that I was trying to pursuade someone who already agreed with me.

Quote:
Yes, most people who are lost are confused, and I am most certainly for sound argument concerning the scriptures, but in our argument she should not complicate the simple things which, I find many churches and religions do, which as I said, turns people off to christianity. I have seen it with my own eyes.



It's funny you say this, because I have had many a conversation with sinners, where time was available (and patience) to break down each point of contention, one at a time. At the end of our discussion (which went for over two hours) the sinner commented, "This makes alot more sence than, 'Jesus died to turn God into a nice guy'." I discussed the same issues with Christians and have been accused of "sowing confusion". People as a rule don't like being duped, and appreciate dislosure.

I agree that "overcomplicating" things that need not be, is dangerous and futile. However, clarifying [b]subtle errors[/b] can make the difference between a [b]sound[/b] and a [b]counterfeigt conversion[/b].


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/7/11 6:24Profile
WorldView
Member



Joined: 2006/7/10
Posts: 94
Davao, Philippines

 Re:

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:
It's funny you say this, because I have had many a conversation with sinners, where time was available (and patience) to break down each point of contention, one at a time. At the end of our discussion (which went for over two hours) the sinner commented, "This makes alot more sence than, 'Jesus died to turn God into a nice guy'." I discussed the same issues with Christians and have been accused of "sowing confusion". People as a rule don't like being duped, and appreciate dislosure.

I agree that "overcomplicating" things that need not be, is dangerous and futile. However, clarifying [b]subtle errors[/b] can make the difference between a [b]sound[/b] and a [b]counterfeigt conversion[/b].



Well said. I couldn't agree with you more.


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Keith

 2006/7/11 7:07Profile





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