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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

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IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

Being born again...

Is there a period of 'incubation' prior to the Spirit finally giving birth ? Or is it an all of sudden occurrence without birthpains, struggles, and period of time ?

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.' John 3:6-8

As for the parable of the seeds and the good soil... plants do not grow as soon as they are planted... is this referring to being born again... or merely the fruits of a Christian prospering when the plants blooms ?

In other words... does salvation occur at inception, or fruition ? Or does salvation involve the entire process of inception and fruition ?


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2006/6/21 21:06Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

I believe that salvation occurs immediately when you repent and have faith. I think right then you are born again.

You will immediately become much more aware of sin when you are confronted by it. Your eyes will immediately be opened to sin and you will also have the power to resist it.

Not to say there are never struggles, temptations, or even times when you sin, but you will have the ability to see sin by the conviction of the Holy Spirit and will also have the power to resist it.

So I guess to sum up, I think you are born again right at salvation.


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Taylor Otwell

 2006/6/21 21:28Profile









 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?


Hi Sam,

This is a good question and there is much in scripture to encourage you.

Let me recommend you read the whole of 1 Peter, and 2 Peter 1. He covers much of what matters in a very short space.

(NKJV)1 Peter 1
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy."

17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 [u]knowing[/u] that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 [u]having been born again, not of corruptible seed [b]but incorruptible[/b], through the word of God which lives and abides forever[/u],


2 Peter 1
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has [b]given[/b] to us all things that pertain to [b]life[/b] and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 [b]by which have been [u]given to us exceedingly great and precious promises[/u], that through these you may be [u]partakers of the divine nature[/u], having escaped the corruption in the world through lust[/b]. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith ....

10 [u]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure[/u], for [b]if [u]you[/u] do these things you will [u]never[/u] stumble; [/b]11 [b]for [u]so[/u] an entrance [u]will be supplied to you abundantly[/u] into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/b].

12 For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth.


'supplied' = ministered or served

Galatians 4:19
My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

Earlier in the chapter Paul says this:

1 Now I say the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

[THIS BIT IS A WARNING]
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.


EDIT: contd.

 2006/6/22 5:35









 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

contd.


Sam, the thoughts about adoption - becoming a son of God and its signs and meaning for the law and the flesh, are also in Romans 8:2 - 17.

A good way to determine whether you have received the indwelling Holy Spirit, is to pray aloud and not from your mind. Let your spirit take over. Do you call Him 'Father', when you are flowing towards Him and know Him carrying you?

This is not to say there will never be anything else to think about, or to wrestle over with Him, but, as with Jacob in Genesis 32, when he asked the angel His Name, the engagement with God has begun - had begun for Jacob long ago at Bethel, when he saw the ladder to heaven and the angels ascending and descending. There he made God a promise and he kept it, and God kept His side too, even though Jacob went through a great deal of personal hassle in the process.

You asked about birth. There are three stages to labor: the first stage is the most painful one usually, and the longest, in which it becomes clear that the baby is going to be born soon. Then there is the stage of pushing the baby out from the darkness into the light

(1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Coloss 1:13
Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:).

Then, there is the afterbirth to be delivered, from which the umbilical cord developed. This organ has supplied the baby in the womb, with its mother's respiration and nutrients through its close interface with her blood supply (life). But, once the baby is born, it has to be cut off from this, and use its own muscles to survive - but still dependent for life (food) on the mother (Holy Spirit).

Being separated from the afterbirth is a natural process, but, it can be the most messy. Don't give up in the face of apparent confusion. Give it a bit of time, and you will begin to recognise where God is, and how to feed from His table. Babies learn very quickly where to find food and how to attract attention when they need help. Just remember, it's [i]God[/i] who's going to answer, and look to Him [i]first[/i], every time.

Perhaps, getting your eyes of what all this looks like to the observer, will be part of your deliverance. Babies have absolutely no culture whatever. They are totally uninhibited and dependent on the mercy of those into whose care they have been committed. This mercy extends to clearing up after them for a good while, and loving to do it for them, because they are babies and can't do it for themselves yet. Their very existence is a joy, and they remain the apple of their daddy's eye as he disciplines them to a more mature understanding of how they should grow, when eventually, a different standard of behaviour is required from them.

I'm not talking about sin, in this above picture. The decision to be parted from the sinful nature has to be made during the birthing process, and continually ratified thereafter

 2006/6/22 5:40









 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?


Sam, just wanted to catch your eye before you go offline, or I would have edited the previous post. There was one thing I forgot to say... that the afterbirth is part of the baby, not the mother. We keep the baby (of course), and get rid of the afterbirth, usually in an incinerator.

 2006/6/22 8:10
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

Sam,

....chosen in Him before the foundation of the world....(an immeasurable period of time)

...born of the Spirit...

Hallelujah


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Eric John Sawyer

 2006/6/22 10:06Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3683
Ca.

 Re:

conception is in the Seed. The Seed has all there is to make from the egg what is programmed in the Seed. The Seed comes form God, be it plant or animal. A Seed of an Oak tree will produce and Oak Tree. That little acorn has all that is necessary to produce a full grown Oak Tree. The Seed must die before it can create The fruit of the Oak tree. The life is in the Seed. The Fruit is in the Seed. The fruit of the Oak Tree is oak balls and acorns, the acorns producing more Oak Trees.

The same is in salvation and the birthing. When we believe, the Seed, The Incorruptable Seed of the Father which is Jesus Christ, the same Seed put in Mary which brought forth Jesus Christ. That same Seed of Christ is planted in the believer and a new creature is conceived. That Creature is now the Seed of the Father planted in the believer which is the same as the egg from the Ovary of Mary.

The Seed was already planted in the ground and was resurrected and gives new birth to an already living egg. Now the living egg, the New Believer Has conceived and new life is born again in the believer. When the Seed is planted, it contains all that is necessary to produce The Nature of the Seed, which is the God Nature which is Jesus Christ in you the Hope of Glory. New birth, or born again. Now the new life must grow by the power of that Seed, The New Nature that is in the believer, or if you will the Living Egg Rebirthed, and in growing, it will now learn how to become what has already been programmed into the Seed by the Producer of that Seed, which is God our Father. I like to call it the whole bucket of Seed and Grace. You now have it, now we will grow in it and learn who we now are. Line upon Line and Precept upon Precept, working out this New Birth Salvation with Wonderful Fear and Great Trembling and the Fearfully and Wonderfully Made New Creature that our Father has produced. We Got it all, we are Getting it all and we will Get it all. A New Born Babe, already delivered, being delivered, and will be delivered. 2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us];

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/6/22 18:08Profile









 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

Rebirth is immediate.
Becoming who are were created to be is a process.

Salvation, being "saved", I believe occurs when we are finally saved in that day.
Being born of the Spirit is a 'deposit'guaranteeing what is to come.

 2006/6/24 18:19
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3683
Ca.

 Re:

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

2Cr 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

If we believe we are already saved and sealed in that salvation by the Holy Spirit.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/6/26 4:37Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Born Again... Process or Immediate ?

Both :-)

"A crisis that doesn't lead to a process will become an absess." - Ron Bailey


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/6/26 5:27Profile





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